Min Raise Rules (3 Viewers)

[Racer96]

Shit, how's it calculated?

Pot sized bets are fun.

The short cut to remembering how to calculate is:
3x the last bet, plus the action before that bet, plus the total in the pot already.

Say we are post flop action.
Pot has $25 in it.
A bets $15. (Can bet up to $25, the total amount in the pot.)
B bets $50 (can bet up to $70. This is calculated by 3x$15 plus $25. We get this by the following, $25 pot + $15 bet + $15 you call for that bet = $55 raise on top of the $15 call = $70)
C says pot.
The pot sized bet is $190.
Eg 3x$50 plus $15 plus $25 = $190
Or long form:
C is first calling the last bet of $50 plus $50 from B plus $15 from A plus the $25 pre flop pot. = $140
C is now raising that total pot amount on top of the $50 call, for a total of $190.

Mike

 

[Davism72]

Thanks! Punishingly intricate!

 

[Mr Winberg]

This thread has a lot of good info in it. The minraise size after an all in that's not a full raise was news to me.

Some people still seem confused. I believe that the easiest way to think about this is to focus on the difference between "raising to" and "raising with". When determining minraise sizes it's ten times easier focusing on "raising with":
All-ins aside, if someone makes a legal bet/raise "with" X, the next raise needs to be "with" at least another X.

Min-reraises preflop can be confusing since players sometimes forget that the big blind is a bet. Raising the BB of 100 to 300 is a raise "with" 200.

 

[abby99]

Shit, how's it calculated?

I know of 2 ways. I usually use the second out of habit. To make a pot-sized raise:

1) Determine the amount that you need to call. Calculate the pot, counting all the active bets (including your call) and the chips in the middle. That's your raise. You need to add the raise to call to get the total amount of your bet.

Example 1a: $10 in the pot at the start of the street. A opens for $5, B raises pot = ($5 for B's call) + (A's $5 bet) + ($10 in the middle) = a raise OF $20 for a total bet of $25.

Example 1b: $10 in the pot at the start of the street. A opens for $5, B raises to $25, C raises pot = ($25 for C's call) + ($25 for B's bet) + ($5 for A's bet) + ($10 in the middle) = a raise OF $65 for a total bet of $90.

2) Determine the amount of the bet you are facing (disregard any chips that you've already bet on this street). Multiply that by 3, and add it to the amount of all active bets on this street (exclude the bet you just called) plus the chips in the middle (the "trail"). This method is known as 3x plus the trail.

Example 2a: $10 in the pot at the start of the street. A opens for $5, B raises pot. B faces a bet of $5. 3 x $5 = $15. Add that to the $10 in the middle for a total bet, including the call and the raise, of $25.

Example 2b: $10 in the pot at the start of the street. A opens for $5, B raises to $25. C faces a bet of $25. 3 x $25 = $75. Add that to the trail of $15 (A's bet of $5 + the $10 in the middle) for a total bet, including the call and the raise, of $90.

I think of method #2 as being in two parts. First, consider the last person to bet or raise in front of us. Calling that person's bet is $x, at which point that part of the pot is $2x. We then match that with a pot-sized raise of $2x, making that part of the pot $4x. We subtract $1x from $4x to get our total bet of $3x (so far), which comprises our call of $1x and our raise of $2x. Second, we need to match the remaining chips on the table, the trail, which comprises all other active bets on this street plus the chips in the middle. This takes much longer to explain than to do.

A note on terminology: Pay attention to the difference between a raise OF $x and a raise TO $x. A verbal declaration of "Raise, $75" is generally interpreted as a raise TO $75, equivalent to "Raise, make it $75."

It took me forever to type this, and I see that the two preceding posts cover the same material. Oh, well, I'm posting this anyway.

 

[abby99]

I almost forgot: The correct terminology for re-raising pot is "Repot, Motherf**ker!"

 

[Beakertwang]

Ridiculous scenario time:

.25/.50 NLHE, all 9 players limp pre-flop.

The flop is dealt, and SB bets $1. BB raises to $2, UTG to $3, and so on till the button raises to $9. Can the SB can now raise to $10.25 if he wants? I would think so, since the BB could have raised to $2.25.

Also, how many players in this scenario deserve to be throat-punched?

 

[BGinGA]

.25/.50 NLHE, all 9 players limp pre-flop.

The flop is dealt, and SB bets $1. BB raises to $2, UTG to $3, and so on till the button raises to $9. Can the SB can now raise to $10.25 if he wants? I would think so, since the BB could have raised to $2.25.

SB can raise to anything from $10 minimum to the size of his stack. When he first acted, the BB could have raised to anything from $2 minimum to the size of his stack. Dunno where you're getting the change figures....

 

[Gobbs]

Ridiculous scenario time:

.25/.50 NLHE, all 9 players limp pre-flop.

The flop is dealt, and SB bets $1. BB raises to $2, UTG to $3, and so on till the button raises to $9. Can the SB can now raise to $10.25 if he wants? I would think so, since the BB could have raised to $2.25.

Also, how many players in this scenario deserve to be throat-punched?

1) Yes. He can bet anywhere between $10 and the size of his stack.
2) 8, and soon to be 9 if SB raises to $10.

 

[WedgeRock]

Ridiculous scenario time:

.25/.50 NLHE, all 9 players limp pre-flop.

The flop is dealt, and SB bets $1. BB raises to $2, UTG to $3, and so on till the button raises to $9. Can the SB can now raise to $10.25 if he wants? I would think so, since the BB could have raised to $2.25.

Yes. It's a NL game, right? As @BGinGA said, anything from a $1 raise up to the size of his stack. But it has nothing to do with what the button could have done (and BTW, the button could've raise $1 to an all day total of $9 all the way up to the size of his stack... Why do you say he could've raised $2.25?)

But a MIN RAISE is still $1 to $10 all day.

Also, how many players in this scenario deserve to be throat-punched?

All of them.

 

[ktran]

2/5 NL

In the flop, SB leads out for 30. Since there was no action before obviously, the new raise minimal increment is 25 and not 30. Just because he started the first raise doesn't mean it would split the difference the big blind of 5?

My original thought was it is still 25 increment bc it's a 25 raise from the big blind even if there was no call of 5 before and doesn't start from 0.

I'm pretty sure my thought is right, but someone brought this question up to me and just want to second guess it and clarify it.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

@ktran

No. $2/5 just means that $5 is the minimum bet, that's not a standing bet each street.

Min raise would be to $60 if this is on the flop since the first bet was $30. If instead, SB had bet $5 and someone raised to $30, then the minimum raise would be to $55, 25 more. It does start at 0; if you can check, the bet is 0.

 

[LeCoq]

great thread. This really helped me to understand correctly.

 

[rrobyrrroby]

Let me see if I got this right...
NLHE
Player A - Bet 250
Player B - Min Raise 500
Player C - Min Raise 750
Player A - Min Raise 1000
Player B - Min Raise 1500
Player C - Min Raise 2500
Player A - Min Raise 4500
...

 

[Mr Winberg]

Let me see if I got this right...
NLHE
Player A - Bet 250
Player B - Min Raise to 500
Player C - Min Raise to 750
Player A - Min Raise to 1000
Player B - Min Raise to 1250
Player C - Min Raise to 1500
Player A - Min Raise to 1750
...

FYP
Always good to be clear if the raise is with X or to X.
In your scenario the bet is 250, which now becomes the minimum amount to raise. This is why everyone is raising with 250. After A raised with 250 to 1750, if B raises with 500 to 2250, then 500 is the new min raise. Until the next street where it starts over again.

 

[Frogzilla]

I forget who does which rule for how big an all-in must be to reopen action. Is it always has to exceed minimum bet, or is there somewhere action is reopened if the all in raise exceeds 50% of the min

Maybe I’m confusing it with the rule for when a raise is less than the minimum (50%+ becomes minraise <50% becomes call unless raise is announced)

And ive been running bad on floor ruling bets. Just lost a unit this week betting that if BB grabs SB card during the deal (both accurately dealt, 100% BB error) is that a misdeal or not.

 

[springbox]

Let me see if I got this right...
NLHE
Player A - Bet 250
Player B - Min Raise 500
Player C - Min Raise 750
Player A - Min Raise 1000
Player B - Min Raise 1500
Player C - Min Raise 2500
Player A - Min Raise 4500
...

If someone bets 250 and people keep min raising, the min raise amount will never go up. Someone needs to raise by more than the minimum for that to happen. In theory two players could raise 1bb at a time until they were all in.

The minimum raise is always the amount of the first bet, or the amount of the previous raise. Add that to whatever the current bet is and you have your new bet. If someone is all-in for less than a min-raise, the minimum raise doesn't change, but their all in is the current bet you add to.

 

[Kentucky]

#ControversialOpinion It would be easier to work out min bet amounts if we allowed string bets

 

[Mr Winberg]

#ControversialOpinion It would be easier to work out min bet amounts if we allowed string bets

I'm all for string bets, but only if you make your intention clear by first verbally declaring that you "see" the previous bet, and then have a long pause to build tension before you raise like "....aaaaaaand I'll raise ya another $20".

 

[SwissChip]

We keep it simple, even when incorrect:
Min raise = big blind

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

We keep it simple, even when incorrect:
Min raise = big blind

So playing 1/2.

Flop

Player A bets 2
Player B raises to 4
Player C raises to 10

Under what you just said Player A can then make it 12? That makes zero sense.

 

[SwissChip]

So playing 1/2.

Flop

Player A bets 2
Player B raises to 4
Player C raises to 10

Under what you just said Player A can then make it 12? That makes zero sense.

Yes he could raise to 12.
But in reality the raise would be 25 or so ; )

 

[merkong]

You can never go wrong just jamming

 

[Bluegrass Poker]

Yes he could raise to 12.
But in reality the raise would be 25 or so ; )

Well at least you know you don’t follow the rules. LOL

 

[SwissChip]

Well at least you know you don’t follow the rules. LOL

As long every player like what we do…

But on 9/10 the re-raise is 2x the last raise or more.

So the min raise is quite rare in our normal game

 

[allforcharity]

At one home game the house rule is that any raise must be at least double the previous bet.

 

[Kentucky]

I'm all for string bets, but only if you make your intention clear by first verbally declaring that you "see" the previous bet, and then have a long pause to build tension before you raise like "....aaaaaaand I'll raise ya another $20".

It’s definitely a “see” and not a “call”.

 

[ontheriver51]

Hey, all. I hate having to ask this question, because I've played poker for a long time, but I'm having trouble with min raises in no-limit games. Situation:

Player 1: Bet $1.00
Player 2: Call $1.00
Player 3: Raise to $3.00

Player 1 may now either call for an additional $2, or he may raise. If he elects the latter, what is the minimum he must raise? I thought the answer was $6 (double the leading bet) but now I think it may be $5 (double the previous raise).

For extra credit, once Player 1 raises, how much must Player 2 contribute if he wants to re-raise?

$5,$7,$9, etc. you must raise at least as much as the last raise

 

[MC_CPA]

At one home game the house rule is that any raise must be at least double the previous bet.

For simplicity this is how my University club has been playing for the last year lol. It works because the first min-raise just so happens to be double the BB, and not many people 3! the min amount so this almost never comes in play.

 

[Jeevansluck]

At one home game the house rule is that any raise must be at least double the previous bet.

At a recent game I ran, this ruling was applied. Easy and simple.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

It’s definitely a “see” and not a “call”.

Ugh, this was rough. Home game with an older crowd of actual southern gentleman does this, but the pause kills me.

River, I make a pot-sized bet, get called by one man, and then the last guy says, "I Call." and looks down at his chips. And as I'm flipping over my hand he says "and I...wait, I wasn't done!" and everyone agreed I was too hasty. Really need to pump the brakes in this game, gotta wait 3 seconds after the I call to see if there's a follow-up "...and raise another $X".