Official PCF Whisk(e)y Thread (88 Viewers)

[gopherblue]

Kind of a rambling question, but one I’ve been thinking about here:

At roughly what price range would people say that whiskeys start to go from okay to good? How much for something really good? How much to get something mind-blowing, if that really exists? And at what point does a big increase in price not really add more than marginal improvements in quality, or just reflect its scarcity/prestige value?

I ask because with many other products (say, bigscreen TVs) I find you don’t really get a major bump-up in improvement in quality/features unless you jump really high above the standard consumer grade. Like, $20,000+ instead of $2,000.

I’ve dabbled in the $100-$200 range with brown liquors, but most of my typical purchases are in the $40-$80 range, because of the sheer volume of whisky-bourbon-scotch we go through in my household. A $150 bottle is going to disappear as quickly as a $50 one. And I’ve certainly not spent, say, $500-$1,000 on a single bottle.

Just wondering when things get noticeably better compared to, say, something around $120, or if some of the really high end connoisseurship is more driven by trendiness/status/curiosity than trying to find something truly better.

To use a chipping analogy: The jump for my home game from dice chips/slugged chips to vintage ASMs was a giant leap. Then, stepping up to THC Starburst solids was another big improvement, though the bump was less gigantic than them move from Walmart plastics. (I’ve never owned ceramics, but my limited experience with them is that they are kind of midway between the two.)

As I started to collect other, more specialized and spotted Paulsons (RHCs from The Chip Room, PCRs, etc.), these improved the game in smaller differences of degree, or just suited my own taste better, rather than representing an actual jump in raw quality. Once you have Paulsons, IMHO, you’ve made it 95% of the way to the top (I know TRK owners disagree). To make one more leap forward, I need to finish up design on several milling/custom inlay jobs.

After that, there would be little more for me to do as far as big upgrades unless I stumbled on some true grail set, like the actual chips from the Mayfair Club in NYC or something (whose value would be more in their history than actual chip quality). I might start collecting other chipsets, or make a creative mixed Vegas set—but these would likely be lateral shifts, not vertical ones.

Not sure if I’m expressing this clearly... But before I go and splurge on a bottle with a price more piece of nice lighting or furniture (which I could enjoy for years, not just a few weeks or months), I’m wondering if people can be honest and talk about whether the ultrafancy stuff is truly a cut above, or if it’s more about experimentation, noticing slight differences, bragging rights, etc.

Rambling answer. First of all, I’m new to bourbon, but it is totally overpriced, and not just the allocated stuff, at least compared to comparable scotches. However, I think there is something to be said for certain bottles that I know I like, even if their prices are a bit higher than they ought to be. For example, I will pay twice MSRP for BTAC bottles, but not really likely to go much higher. The incremental improvement of George T Stagg, for example, is worth about 2x-3x Stagg Jr. to me. But that’s it. After that, I’m thinking to myself, “is this one bottle worth more to me than 3-4 bottles of something else?” Uh, no, and I have (some) disposable whisk(e)y income. Diminishing returns and all that.

That said, to be honest, there are incredible bottles of rye, bourbon and scotch to be had in the $50-100 range (and tbh, the $40-60 range) to the point that most options above that point are not necessarily worth it.

But—and there is always a but—certain (hell, most) bottles in the premium price category (up to $200 or so) aren’t daily drinkers, but I own them for the experience of tasting them. They are bottles I’d taste from time to time, often a short pour of a couple side by side. So I’m not mowing through bottles of BTAC the same way I’m mowing through Oban 14, Laga 16, Stagg Jr., and Old Forester 1920.

Now, there are those with the means who spend far, far more on the “right” bottles, but for the most part (but certainly not in all cases), I think that is mostly LOLZ or trying too hard. Real connoisseurship is knowing how to find greatness at all price points, and reveling in the true bargains and unexpected “whoa” drams. The Alberta Premium cask rye is a good example of this.

I’m a bit cynical, but PT Barnum was right, and there is clear evidence of this in the bourbon and scotch marketing/offering of extremely rare or limited nosebleed whiskies where the incremental improvement in quality is mostly in the mind of the dilettante trying to impress someone. That isn’t to say that some of those drams aren’t amazeballs, but I don’t confuse pocketbook with expertise—objectively, I certainly don’t think the exponential outlay of cash provides commensurate returns.

 

[ssanel54]

Kind of a rambling question, but one I’ve been thinking about here:

At roughly what price range would people say that whiskeys start to go from okay to good? How much for something really good? How much to get something mind-blowing, if that really exists? And at what point does a big increase in price not really add more than marginal improvements in quality, or just reflect its scarcity/prestige value?

I ask because with many other products (say, bigscreen TVs) I find you don’t really get a major bump-up in improvement in quality/features unless you jump really high above the standard consumer grade. Like, $20,000+ instead of $2,000.

I’ve dabbled in the $100-$200 range with brown liquors, but most of my typical purchases are in the $40-$80 range, because of the sheer volume of whisky-bourbon-scotch we go through in my household. A $150 bottle is going to disappear as quickly as a $50 one. And I’ve certainly not spent, say, $500-$1,000 on a single bottle.

Just wondering when things get noticeably better compared to, say, something around $120, or if some of the really high end connoisseurship is more driven by trendiness/status/curiosity than trying to find something truly better.

To use a chipping analogy: The jump for my home game from dice chips/slugged chips to vintage ASMs was a giant leap. Then, stepping up to THC Starburst solids was another big improvement, though the bump was less gigantic than them move from Walmart plastics. (I’ve never owned ceramics, but my limited experience with them is that they are kind of midway between the two.)

As I started to collect other, more specialized and spotted Paulsons (RHCs from The Chip Room, PCRs, etc.), these improved the game in smaller differences of degree, or just suited my own taste better, rather than representing an actual jump in raw quality. Once you have Paulsons, IMHO, you’ve made it 95% of the way to the top (I know TRK owners disagree). To make one more leap forward, I need to finish up design on several milling/custom inlay jobs.

After that, there would be little more for me to do as far as big upgrades unless I stumbled on some true grail set, like the actual chips from the Mayfair Club in NYC or something (whose value would be more in their history than actual chip quality). I might start collecting other chipsets, or make a creative mixed Vegas set—but these would likely be lateral shifts, not vertical ones.

Not sure if I’m expressing this clearly... But before I go and splurge on a bottle with a price more piece of nice lighting or furniture (which I could enjoy for years, not just a few weeks or months), I’m wondering if people can be honest and talk about whether the ultrafancy stuff is truly a cut above, or if it’s more about experimentation, noticing slight differences, bragging rights, etc.

The price of a bottle can be influenced by many factors, starting with cost of the grains in the mashbill. Older whiskeys take longer to make and will yield less than younger whiskeys, so naturally they cost more, but that doesnt always mean they taste better. Same with a small hand craft distillery or limited batch product vs. something mass produced. Different people like different flavor profiles, and some of those bottles will cost more to make and market than others.

If you consider just MSRP pricing for bourbon, I think you see a big jump in quality from your <$30 bottles up to the 30-60 bottles. The next jump up to the 60-100 range can often mean smaller batches, higher proofs, age statements etc. This group also opens up a whole new range of flavor, which doesnt necessarily mean good for everyone, but you wont find it in the segments below. Bottles of >$100 are usually limited releases or 15+years which again opens up new flavors and justifies a price increase.

The subject of mark-up and how much people are willing to pay over MSRP is a totally different story and has alot more to do with supply/demand and the vanity which you allude to. There is a big difference in quality from Dice Chips to Starbursts, and then another jump to spotted Inlay Paulsons, There is another jump in quality when you start to consider shaped inlays, different molds etc.- but these qualities arent really noticed or appreciated by everyone. At this point, all of these chips are just $1chips out of the GPI factory, and we create the hype, demand and crazy pricing associated with them.

 

[ChaosRock]

Still dream of having another drink from this bottle. Sure going to miss the SQM this year. Gotta thank @pltrgyst for bringing this bottle 2 years ago.
View attachment 630398

Amen! Great dram.

 

[ssanel54]

Was able to get these today for the Super Bowl.

 

[joeyshin]

Was able to get these today for the Super Bowl.

View attachment 630428

Etl! How much was it? Msrp?

 

[ssanel54]

Etl! How much was it? Msrp?

Unfortunately not msrp. ETL and Stagg were both 100, which I think is the new reality for me

 

[JeepologyOffroad]

I didn't like paying 100 for stagg jr when I found it, but after tasting I wish I would've bought them all

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Unfortunately not msrp. ETL and Stagg were both 100, which I think is the new reality for me

Well that makes me feel better about having to pay 60 for EHT small batch last week, especially when my Stagg JR was also 60.

 

[joeyshin]

Unfortunately not msrp. ETL and Stagg were both 100, which I think is the new reality for me

$100 is pretty good considering it’s price has jumped in the past year and a half. I bought one for $100 2.5 years ago but haven’t seen it at that price since. Did they have more?

 

[ssanel54]

$100 is pretty good considering it’s price has jumped in the past year and a half. I bought one for $100 2.5 years ago but haven’t seen it at that price since. Did they have more?

Both had to be retrieved from the back office, so not sure what he had left

 

[RainmanTrail]

Ok. Let’s talk whisk(e)y glasses. I have some very nice, heavy crystal rocks glasses for long, contemplative sessions and standard glencairns for tasting, but I’d like something in-between. Glencairns are pretty narrow and not as conducive to sitting and lounging. Nor can they accommodate ice. I’ve seen pics of wider glencairn-esque glasses that I think might fit the bill—anyone have something like that they recommend?

If you're looking to get some banana on the nose, I'd highly recommend these. They come in a 6 pack. Plus, they're stackable!

 

[Irish]

Kind of a rambling question, but one I’ve been thinking about here:

At roughly what price range would people say that whiskeys start to go from okay to good? How much for something really good? How much to get something mind-blowing, if that really exists? And at what point does a big increase in price not really add more than marginal improvements in quality, or just reflect its scarcity/prestige value?

I ask because with many other products (say, bigscreen TVs) I find you don’t really get a major bump-up in improvement in quality/features unless you jump really high above the standard consumer grade. Like, $20,000+ instead of $2,000.

I’ve dabbled in the $100-$200 range with brown liquors, but most of my typical purchases are in the $40-$80 range, because of the sheer volume of whisky-bourbon-scotch we go through in my household. A $150 bottle is going to disappear as quickly as a $50 one. And I’ve certainly not spent, say, $500-$1,000 on a single bottle.

Just wondering when things get noticeably better compared to, say, something around $120, or if some of the really high end connoisseurship is more driven by trendiness/status/curiosity than trying to find something truly better.

To use a chipping analogy: The jump for my home game from dice chips/slugged chips to vintage ASMs was a giant leap. Then, stepping up to THC Starburst solids was another big improvement, though the bump was less gigantic than them move from Walmart plastics. (I’ve never owned ceramics, but my limited experience with them is that they are kind of midway between the two.)

As I started to collect other, more specialized and spotted Paulsons (RHCs from The Chip Room, PCRs, etc.), these improved the game in smaller differences of degree, or just suited my own taste better, rather than representing an actual jump in raw quality. Once you have Paulsons, IMHO, you’ve made it 95% of the way to the top (I know TRK owners disagree). To make one more leap forward, I need to finish up design on several milling/custom inlay jobs.

After that, there would be little more for me to do as far as big upgrades unless I stumbled on some true grail set, like the actual chips from the Mayfair Club in NYC or something (whose value would be more in their history than actual chip quality). I might start collecting other chipsets, or make a creative mixed Vegas set—but these would likely be lateral shifts, not vertical ones.

Not sure if I’m expressing this clearly... But before I go and splurge on a bottle with a price more piece of nice lighting or furniture (which I could enjoy for years, not just a few weeks or months), I’m wondering if people can be honest and talk about whether the ultrafancy stuff is truly a cut above, or if it’s more about experimentation, noticing slight differences, bragging rights, etc.

Very much agreed with these sentiments:

The law of diminishing returns. I don't think any $60 bottle is twice as good as Eagle Rare at $30. Better and more interesting, yes. Twice the enjoyment, no. $60 to $100 is a tough range. $100 to $200 has some fantastic bottles, but are they twice to three times as good as ECBP? Nope. Over $200 and the price becomes part of the experience. Only bring them out for special occasions to celebrate and make an already great experience even better. And, don't get me started about allocated on secondary! Tasted blind, a lot of $300 to $1000 bottles don't measure up. If its flavor you're seeking, you should be able to find great bottles under $60.

The price of a bottle can be influenced by many factors, starting with cost of the grains in the mashbill. Older whiskeys take longer to make and will yield less than younger whiskeys, so naturally they cost more, but that doesnt always mean they taste better. Same with a small hand craft distillery or limited batch product vs. something mass produced. Different people like different flavor profiles, and some of those bottles will cost more to make and market than others.

If you consider just MSRP pricing for bourbon, I think you see a big jump in quality from your <$30 bottles up to the 30-60 bottles. The next jump up to the 60-100 range can often mean smaller batches, higher proofs, age statements etc. This group also opens up a whole new range of flavor, which doesnt necessarily mean good for everyone, but you wont find it in the segments below. Bottles of >$100 are usually limited releases or 15+years which again opens up new flavors and justifies a price increase.

The subject of mark-up and how much people are willing to pay over MSRP is a totally different story and has alot more to do with supply/demand and the vanity which you allude to. There is a big difference in quality from Dice Chips to Starbursts, and then another jump to spotted Inlay Paulsons, There is another jump in quality when you start to consider shaped inlays, different molds etc.- but these qualities arent really noticed or appreciated by everyone. At this point, all of these chips are just $1chips out of the GPI factory, and we create the hype, demand and crazy pricing associated with them.

Similar to the premium and rare chip hobby, often the "fun" in the higher end bourbons (especially for those of us who can't get Weller on the shelf for $30 a pop ) is the thrill of the chase, and getting to enjoy the fruits of searching for and then finding a particular bottle, even at a premium price, are tough to comprehend in terms of true "worth".

To answer the original question, I would say that while there are some pretty good bottles in the $30-$40 range, I would put the distinction line between "okay to good" and around $50. About 80% of the bottles in my cabinet fall in the $50-$100 range, that's where I find my "sweet spot" in the hobby. I have some everyday drinkers below that mark and a few nice "once in a while" bottles above that, but I find that range (and frankly more towards the $50 mark) to be the best bang for my buck.

Edit to add: and I very rarely spend more than $200 for a bottle, 99% of the time it's just not worth that price point at this point in my life.

 

[Irish]

All the recent talk of scotch had me thirsty for something a little different this evening:

 

[juankay20]

First night in the new house after finally closing. Feels good. Tonight’s lineup

Congrats! And great line up

 

[Klobberer]

Has anyone had the Highland Park Cask Strength? I'm trying to get into scotch and love high proof whiskeys. Thoughts?

 

[Saoliver]

Had to finish this one so that I could open this one. @Big Jilm Have you opened yours? I’m curious about Fred Noe’s take on Knob Creek.

 

[Big Jilm]

Had to finish this one so that I could open this one. @Big Jilm Have you opened yours? I’m curious about Fred Noe’s take on Knob Creek.

View attachment 630607

Not yet bro. Still working on 27 open bottles!!!

 

[Windwalker]

Ok. Let’s talk whisk(e)y glasses. I have some very nice, heavy crystal rocks glasses for long, contemplative sessions and standard glencairns for tasting, but I’d like something in-between. Glencairns are pretty narrow and not as conducive to sitting and lounging. Nor can they accommodate ice. I’ve seen pics of wider glencairn-esque glasses that I think might fit the bill—anyone have something like that they recommend?

I highly recommend the “clarity tumbler”.

https://www.galwaycrystal.ie/collec...ucts/copy-of-clarity-tumbler-whiskey-set-of-4

 

[joeyshin]

Thanks to @Klobberer for the Alberta Premium Cask Strength Rye

Now I’m no sommelier and I don’t have the most refined palate but here’s my take.

Nose: Fruity and really bright.. almost citrusy. I do get some of that rye spice it’s kinda peppery on the nose.

Palate: the citrusy brightness and fruitiness roll out on the tongue. It’s peppery and almost savory. It’s woody, not oaky, but like how plank of cedar smells. The mouthfeel is oily and rich. Very palatable.

Finish: Medium finish. There is still the tingle that lingers from rye spice. It’s almost numbing. I wished finish was longer and smoother, but it’s nice. Finishes very peppery.

I’d say it’s pretty great. I’m glad I got 2 bottles.

 

[Irish]

Not yet bro. Still working on 27 open bottles!!!

 

[Windwalker]

Ok. Let’s talk whisk(e)y glasses. I have some very nice, heavy crystal rocks glasses for long, contemplative sessions and standard glencairns for tasting, but I’d like something in-between. Glencairns are pretty narrow and not as conducive to sitting and lounging. Nor can they accommodate ice. I’ve seen pics of wider glencairn-esque glasses that I think might fit the bill—anyone have something like that they recommend?

Forgot to mention this one, which might have traditionalists damn me for eternity, but given the hybrid nature of your request, this might be a fascinating choice.

The Corksicle Whiskey Wedge is an old fashioned glass that comes with a silicone mold that allows you to create a wedge of ice in your glass.

 

[Saoliver]

Thanks to @Klobberer for the Alberta Premium Cask Strength Rye

Now I’m no sommelier and I don’t have the most refined palate but here’s my take.

Nose: Fruity and really bright.. almost citrusy. I do get some of that rye spice it’s kinda peppery on the nose.

Palate: the citrusy brightness and fruitiness roll out on the tongue. It’s peppery and almost savory. It’s woody, not oaky, but like how plank of cedar smells. The mouthfeel is oily and rich. Very palatable.

Finish: Medium finish. There is still the tingle that lingers from rye spice. It’s almost numbing. I wished finish was longer and smoother, but it’s nice. Finishes very peppery.

I’d say it’s pretty great. I’m glad I got 2 bottles.

View attachment 630636

I picked up a 2nd one yesterday. So good.

 

[juankay20]

View attachment 629023

Definitely one of my favorite batches so far. I have a few different batches open atm, but i keep coming back to this one.
If anyone has some A/C 17s or A/B 18s, i'd be down to swap some samples

 

[Big Jilm]

This IS the greatest thread of all time. Really enjoying everyone (ALL the whiskey drinkers) and all the camaraderie happening here. Blind wars, samples being sent all over the country or even bottles.

And if my calculations are correct -- this will end up as the first post on the 200th page! edit -- damnit

 

[juankay20]

I picked up a 2nd one yesterday. So good.

I haven't been a huge rye fan, but this one's making me a believer

 

[aggie]

might have traditionalists damn me for eternity,

Someone please call the exorcist.

 

[Copper44]

This IS the greatest thread of all time. Really enjoying everyone (ALL the whiskey drinkers) and all the camaraderie happening here. Blind wars, samples being sent all over the country or even bottles.

And if my calculations are correct -- this will end up as the first post on the 200th page! edit -- damnit

I wish the wine thread would take off like this one!

 

[detroitdad]

Forgot to mention this one, which might have traditionalists damn me for eternity, but given the hybrid nature of your request, this might be a fascinating choice.

The Corksicle Whiskey Wedge is an old fashioned glass that comes with a silicone mold that allows you to create a wedge of ice in your glass.


View attachment 630640

I've considered picking one of these up. Do you have one? How do you like it?

 

[Windwalker]

I've considered picking one of these up. Do you have one? How do you like it?

I’ve had a couple, and they were effective. When the wedge melts a lot, it gets a little funny.

 

[gopherblue]

Thanks to @Klobberer for the Alberta Premium Cask Strength Rye

Now I’m no sommelier and I don’t have the most refined palate but here’s my take.

Nose: Fruity and really bright.. almost citrusy. I do get some of that rye spice it’s kinda peppery on the nose.

Palate: the citrusy brightness and fruitiness roll out on the tongue. It’s peppery and almost savory. It’s woody, not oaky, but like how plank of cedar smells. The mouthfeel is oily and rich. Very palatable.

Finish: Medium finish. There is still the tingle that lingers from rye spice. It’s almost numbing. I wished finish was longer and smoother, but it’s nice. Finishes very peppery.

I’d say it’s pretty great. I’m glad I got 2 bottles.

View attachment 630636

I picked up a 2nd one yesterday. So good.

Going to do the same. And an extra for @Forty4, if they have enough backstock.