Thoughts on this type of player...? (2 Viewers)

codeman00

codeman00

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There are a couple of player traits that kind of irritate me. The traits are very similar though but the reason that they tilt me is the same. I'm curious that if you guys have a similar dislike or whether my thoughts are justified or wrong on this one.

To set the stage, we're not talking about a casino game here; I'm talking about home games and the players are all friends for the most part. (not a raked home game with a bunch of strangers) The player type I'm talking about it is one that will sit at the table forever if he is winning everyone's money but will either:
  • have an surprisingly low loss limit compared to the stakes, even if he is a very good player compared to the group
  • leave early and rathole a profit even though it could affect the game or even break up the game due to lack of players left
  • or a combination of both
I have several examples of this over the years and lost a friendship early on over a friend that came to a game of 4 players with a ridiculously low loss limit and 30 minutes in, he lost his money which broke up the game for the night. I know good and well if he was winning, the game would have went on for hours more. That was high school...a long time ago.

More recently, I've seen a player play and do well in our tournament and once we start playing cash with only 6 people or so make a comment about "leaving early with his profits while he had them" while the rest continue to play for several more hours, never to show up again to play.

The most recent example is a guy that consistently has success in our $0.25/$0.50 $40 Buy In NL game. He's really good with casino experience where he plays $1/$3. He plays until quitting time most nights. I've seen him win $200 which is huge for this game. I've seen him win $100+ 3 nights in a row and just demolish players. However, I saw him one night go through 2 buy ins ($80) and get frustrated. He made a comment that it wasn't his night, was tired of losing, and left... I was thinking to myself, if he was winning, he would sit here all night long and rape everyone...yet he goes through two buy ins and leaves hours early?

I know many players are there for different reasons but it's tough for me to have tolerance for some players, especially like the last one. Am I justified here or is this perfectly acceptable? Do you have any similar experiences?
 
He’s more interested in the money than he is in playing cards with friends. He probably views your game merely as a way to fund his bankroll. Probably not much you can do about his attitude.
 
If the guy is turning tail after losing $80, there really is nothing you can do about it other than not inviting him anymore. If the game is dying out because one player folds up shop this quickly, it's high time you start expanding your player pool. Eventually you should be able to have a steady group who are immune to players who cut and run.
 
I think annoyance is reasonable. A single table game is always at risk if people come and leave quickly.

I agree with Upndown that he’s not treating it as a friendly game. Maybe the game is full and he doesn’t get a seat next time.

At least if they’re good company, you can live with the mercenaries.

I also hate the player that gives poker lessons.
 
people do get tired of losing, and people sometimes figure they are tired, done, got shit to do, whatever. If your game teeters on the whims of one person, then the above advice is solid - get more people.

One more reason I don't want to host, herding cats.
 
Players that are under-rolled (or have a low loss-limit, as you put it) are really doing themselves a disservice. Variance can be a fickle bitch.

I have more of a problem with a player who is down or near break even all night, then hits a big pot towards the end of the night and announces he has one orbit left, then takes a couple hundred dollars off the table. Not ratholing early as soon as he hits a big pot, but being the first one to cash out. If it was an isolated occurence, sure, maybe he's got a busy day tomorrow... But when it happens over and over...
 
Simple solution to one of the problems - House rule; If you are winning, you're expected to play until the game breaks at midnight. (or whatever time you set.)

In two years of running a twice a week game, only had ONE complaint about it.

This may not work for everyone, or every game, since this game has a specific start and end time.
 
I can understand both sides here. I can respect someone who knows they are frustrated and no longer wants to play. At the same time your stakes are not a big deal so the polite thing would be to take a 10 min break and then rebuy so the game doesn't break.

Having this type of player at the table is fine you just need to make sure there are enough other players there to fill in the seats if he decides to leave. Try to keep your game 7-8 handed and this probably won't bother you as much.

Depending on your relationship with him perhaps you could rib him about it in a friendly way and he would get the picture....For example, "oh there Fred goes again hit and running the table..."

Also try and bring in some action players as this just makes the game better for everyone. Even if your Villain is down for the night he may choose to stay and play with some of the "bad" action players. IMO every game needs at least 1 or 2 guys that just straight up love to gamble...so much more fun than 8 seasoned players waiting for 99 or better.
 
BGinGA said:
Solution? Play tournaments.

Fixed maximum losses, and players are expected to leave when they lose. Or win. Solves all of your problems. :)
Click to expand...
One reason that I provide both. Some guys want to play for $40 or $60 bucks, smoke a cigar and play cards. Others want to play for $200 a buy-in.
 
codeman00 said:
The most recent example is a guy that consistently has success in our $0.25/$0.50 $40 Buy In NL game. He's really good with casino experience where he plays $1/$3. He plays until quitting time most nights. I've seen him win $200 which is huge for this game. I've seen him win $100+ 3 nights in a row and just demolish players. However, I saw him one night go through 2 buy ins ($80) and get frustrated. He made a comment that it wasn't his night, was tired of losing, and left... I was thinking to myself, if he was winning, he would sit here all night long and rape everyone...yet he goes through two buy ins and leaves hours early?
Click to expand...

I see no problem here. If someone has a loss limit, fine. If he's sure it's not his night for whatever reason and wants to leave, that's fine too. It seems crazy to me to feel like someone owes it to the game to put in time when they are losing or not feeling it. Remember this is a competitive game. If I'm spewing chips and not feeling it I'd pack up too, and of course if I'm up and winning - yeah I'm going to stick around. Sounds like a shrewd player.

It's for you to decide if you like having this player in your game, and that's about it. What he does and how he manages his wins/losses when at your game is outside your circle of control and really not worth your energy thinking about.
 
I've seen someone else post abut these kind of issues, one solution was to set a minimum of buy-ins. After that if you need to leave fair enough.

I dont really understand the mentality of a LOT of players that would win, win, keep playing, and the one night they lose a little, they get up and leave.? crazy.

I like to play cards. I plan on playing for the evening. if i get felted early on 2 or 3 times in succession, i'll take a break (maybe) and change my game up, maybe start nitting it up a little.I'm there for the evening.

These home games require a solid commitment of players to keep a full table, by agreeing to play you've taken a seat that someone else might have had, and you've agreed to play for the evening IMO. so the whole table can play.
 
MatB said:
I've seen someone else post abut these kind of issues, one solution was to set a minimum of buy-ins. After that if you need to leave fair enough.

I dont really understand the mentality of a LOT of players that would win, win, keep playing, and the one night they lose a little, they get up and leave.? crazy.

I like to play cards. I plan on playing for the evening. if i get felted early on 2 or 3 times in succession, i'll take a break (maybe) and change my game up, maybe start nitting it up a little.I'm there for the evening.

These home games require a solid commitment of players to keep a full table, by agreeing to play you've taken a seat that someone else might have had, and you've agreed to play for the evening IMO. so the whole table can play.
Click to expand...

My mentality is very similar. I love to play cards and I'm there for the night at these low stakes. If it was $1/$3NL and I had lost $1200, things would be different. It took me a lot of play to realize how much variance there is in poker and my guess is most of the players don't understand it at all. There have been many times that I've went through 2 buy ins in the first four hours only to make it up and more in the fifth hour in a few hands. Sometimes you have to give a little to get a little.
 
My favorite example of this occurred one night when a guy won some huge multi-way pot, promptly declared he had to go crash out for the evening, and then came back downstairs an hour later wanting to buy in for the minimum.
 
rowlin said:
My favorite example of this occurred one night when a guy won some huge multi-way pot, promptly declared he had to go crash out for the evening, and then came back downstairs an hour later wanting to buy in for the minimum.
Click to expand...

Lol.
 
rowlin said:
My favorite example of this occurred one night when a guy won some huge multi-way pot, promptly declared he had to go crash out for the evening, and then came back downstairs an hour later wanting to buy in for the minimum.
Click to expand...

Bodies get lost for that kinda behavior!
 
rowlin said:
My favorite example of this occurred one night when a guy won some huge multi-way pot, promptly declared he had to go crash out for the evening, and then came back downstairs an hour later wanting to buy in for the minimum.
Click to expand...
In his defense he had spent the last hour looking for a lady of the night. So all he had left was the minimum buy in.
 
We have a guy like this in our game. his name is @MatB

JK

but in all seriousness, we do have a few similar players in our player pool who try this.

If you attend my game with any regularity, if you commit to playing, you're committing to the evening, unless you previously let me know you need to leave early (this does happen, not often, our usual end time is 12;30/1am so if someone says they need to leave at 11, no big deal)

The people who really annoy me fall into 2 categories; those who say they are leaving early preemptively on a regular basis as a place order for them to squeak out a win. For example: player X says I'm leaving at 11pm so that when 11pm hits, he can rack up and go home, this type of player also regularly stays past 11 if they are losing. Coincidence? I think not.

The other player who annoys me is the guy who plays every hand, sucks out and then says, I have to leave all of a sudden (yeah ok). We have a guy like this who is either massively up, or massively down, takes huge risks. He cannot control himself, if he has chips in front of him, he will use them.

He doesnt understand etiquette whatsoever, and the appearance to be ethical whatsoever. If this player were to win massively, not say a single word out loud about his intentions, and just folded for the entire night, literally every single hand, no one would bat an eye. But he doesnt understand social cues whatsoever.

Ive told this player on several occasions I know what hes doing and he can have a seat in the future if we are desperate but I will not reserve a seat for him if other people want to play ahead of him. I've also let him cash out when hes done this, but he has to wait to cash out until the end time. So he just sits there miserable while I play.
 
You should be annoyed, and you should say something to him.

Leaving early when you bust out is fine. Your game sounds like a social endeavor as much as it is gaming. He's screwing you. That's casino behavior, maybe he'd be more at home there.
 
rowlin said:
My favorite example of this occurred one night when a guy won some huge multi-way pot, promptly declared he had to go crash out for the evening, and then came back downstairs an hour later wanting to buy in for the minimum.
Click to expand...

That's ratholing. You can't do anything about that at a casino, but unacceptable at a home game.
 
I think I used the term “going South” at the time, whether correctly or incorrectly.

What tilted me even more was being questioned about the reasoning for such a rule.
 
If it's one guy, maybe either expand the pool so that playing a man down isn't so crippling, have a private chat with him about home game etiquette, etc. Some people honestly don't realize

If it's multiple people, consider lowering the stakes to give a friendlier atmosphere?
 
I played with a guy who was like this, except he wasn’t even a regular winner; he was a total fish - easiest guy to read that I’ve ever played with, and he had this crazy ability to maximize his losses and minimize his wins. He actually indirectly accused me of cheating a couple of times because “you fold every time I have a hand.” Yup. Because you’re THAT bad. But he wasn’t a gambler other than this weekly game, and he most likely had more money than everybody else in the game, put together. He had a good job, no rent, no kids, no girlfriend, and was generally a cheap bastard. Miser.

This was a game where people’s initial buyins were usually $20, but most of us would rebuy for more as the night rolled on - $30, $40, whatever. Not this guy. When he blew through his first $20, he’d usually rebuy for something like $12 or $14. And when he pissed through that, we’d harass him to stick around and play some more, and I shit you not, he’d rebuy for $6 or $8.
And as often as not, all his buyins would be in all ones, like he’d save all his ones all week to dump them on us.
This guy was rarely at the game for longer than 2-3 hours. Because either he’d lose $38 and leave early, or f he DID get ahead, he’d shut down. His range would become non-exostent, and he’d leave as quickly as he could with his profits.
This game was perpetually short handed, and he’d been around forever, (and like I said, he his ROI was terribly negative) so there was never any talk of cutting him loose. But he’s the perfect example of a guy who just didn’t get the social implications of a home game.
 
Not inviting this type of player is the easiest solution as mentioned.

But the more fun way to deal with him is to never give him action and let the other players at the table know what you are doing and why.

There was one guy in our group the same way. If he ever won a big multinway pot he was out within 30 minutes. Always had an excuse. Eventually we all stopped playing pots with him and he stopped coming.

If the only time people give him action is when they have a monster hand, he’s not going to be winning very many hands.

I always give action to the fish that splash around. It looks good for my table image and I know they will be calling me then when I’m betting. But players that like to hit and run only get 3 bet with monster hands or folds preflop.
 
Just noting that this is a slippery slope being suggested here. I would not do it, I would object if a host/player made such a proposal and I would likely have reservation about the integrity of the game and the host from there on out.

Colluding with other people at the table is on the border line of cheating. I'd say over the line that it was cheating, others might feel differently. Some folks might find it fun, maybe even everyone but the victim. But as time passes someone is going to think they are the new target of one of the host's "jokes". Or something odd happens and folks remembered this incident. Or perhaps a clique decides that they too can make special deals about soft playing each other. Or maybe is just comes down to an open accusation of cheating.

If the host want's to "86" a player - fine. That is one of the perks of being the host. But be upfront about it. Don't orchestrate a systemic harassment. The damage to your game and your own reputation could be severe. If a player needs to get booted out, just do it and be done with the situation.

DrStrange
 
We have a simple rule, buy in and if you bust you can buy in as much as you want. Unless you are either on call or have a previously known potential for leaving, or an emergency happens. You're there until 12. After that whatever.

Sat at a table with a few doctors and one told us he was on call. He ended up busting out twice and on his third rebuy had to go. No big deal.

As long as the players know ahead of time the house expectations they agree by attending and only force majeure can save them.
 
rowlin said:
I think I used the term “going South” at the time, whether correctly or incorrectly.

What tilted me even more was being questioned about the reasoning for such a rule.
Click to expand...


yep

its going south.

you buy back in with what u left with or "Catch U Next Time". Period.
 
Agree that a host telling others what they are doing is colluding, and it is cheating!

I prefer tournaments as those eliminate a lot of these issues. With cash games, players set their own loss limits. Years ago I played in a $.25 limit game (with antes). Most bought in for $10, but one for only $5. I felt bad for him more than anything. Some nights he re-bought, and some nights he didn't. I respected that he had his limits and didn't exceed them. I played many games with only 4 players, and even 3, so it can still be fun.

Getting more players is something I think every host should be trying to do. If your game isn't growing, it is dying. Even if you only host a 1-table cash game, you need new players coming in. A player dies, moves, changes jobs, gets married, has kids (especially one that is somewhat special needs), has a personality clash with another player, or just gets bored with poker -- I've seen all of these things happen. If your game depends on all of the players remaining, your game is in deep danger of collapsing with one life event. You also have a game that sometimes gets canceled when a player can't make it, or 2 can't make it, your game is on its deathbed. More players is the only solution.

Some players will only play cash; some will only play tournaments; some will play both, but will only play one per day. Players also have game preferences. For cash, they may not like all the same game, or even a narrow range of games. Some love wild cards; some hate wild cards. It's hard to get those two players happy in the same game, and one is likely to apparently be a jerk when reality is it just isn't his type of game. I've found in NLHE tournaments some players feel very strongly about re-buys -- some like them, some hate them, and some don't care.

One thing that might help is to survey your players and find out how they really feel about stuff like this. You might suddenly realize the problem is your game has players not suited to what you are trying to do. It's pointless to get upset with those players because they aren't comfortable with something. They may never tell you so as to not offend you. A "survey" doesn't have to be formal. You can talk to players privately, or maybe in a small group at the end of the night and learn a lot. Of course, sometimes you can just get a jerk in the game. If the guy is otherwise pleasant to have, I wouldn't assume he's being a jerk until you know what he's really comfortable with playing.
 

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