What a joke! (3 Viewers)

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The 'dibs' system worked fine for more than 13 years of chip sales on CT, HPT, and PCF (2005-2019 or so). It was never exactly fair to casual forum users, as 'first-come first-served' sales required being actively involved and frequently online in order to see and accept sales offers. It was certainly open to misuse, but those rare occasions were quickly identified and dealt with harshly by the membership at large. And so it worked..... mostly due to the honesty, integrity, and friendship shared by the vast majority of the community members.

It's the latter aspect which has changed. With a significant increase in membership has come a larger number of people who do not view the forum as a community, but rather as a place to either make a profit, or with no personal ties to anyone resulting in a 'me first at all costs' approach to chipping. Both violate the longstanding traditions of this once-small brotherhood of small clay disc collectors.

The percentage of members is likely similar to those in the past, but the sheer volume of new members in recent years makes the actual number of non-community-minded members significantly higher than before. And that's where the old sales system starts to fail -- when a large portion of the users try to find ways around the system to either maximize profits or 'get what they want' without any regard for others, rules, or fair play..... while the vast majority still operate under the assumption that those types of things simply aren't done among friends in a common community setting.
You might be right about all this, but none of what you said here is going to fix what is going on.

With growth comes change, and the old-school style of selling chips no longer works in the current social PCF environment. We'd be better off with NO sales ads (forced to use back-channels or eBay) than what we have right now combined with those who try to manipulate or circumvent it.
No m2m would be a significant loss and in my opinion is NOT a good solution. I suggested a solution. It might not be perfect, but I am confident that it would be both better than what is going on now AND better than no m2m
 
You might be right about all this, but none of what you said here is going to fix what is going on.


No m2m would be a significant loss and in my opinion is NOT a good solution. I suggested a solution. It might not be perfect, but I am confident that it would be both better than what is going on now AND better than no m2m

Yup.
In the end it needs to be up to seller on how to handle the sale.
It can be scripted out just like the auction form. You can do a dibs sale first come first serve for sellers that like that action. You could also do an OBO sell. Post the item and give it 24-48 hours to take offers then complete the sale. This could be transparent as well. When the thread is closed add the buyer and amount sold for as a permeant record. You can also do a lotto system or the fun poker hands that some of the sellers have done. We can have options!

I for one thing the demand is going to continue to grow. I know more and more people that are interested in hosting games at home. We're in the next poker boom IMO. I'm always directing people to this site and vendors that have helped me along the way.

I know some are resistant to change, but is the current system really fair as it is? If you don't sit in the classifieds all day and night you will miss the things you want.

I think not doing anything is the worst idea, as it's going to fester and bubble over more and more.
 
Haha this is all so damn laughable to me. I guess it's because I don't play in the Classifieds much but that fact that we can't just put up a For Sale add with a price, sell it to whoever says "dibs" "mine" "I'll take it", ship money, ship chips and move on, is ridiculous to me. I guess I am just naïve.

99% of the time we can do exactly that though
 
Yup.
In the end it needs to be up to seller on how to handle the sale.
It can be scripted out just like the auction form. You can do a dibs sale first come first serve for sellers that like that action. You could also do an OBO sell. Post the item and give it 24-48 hours to take offers then complete the sale. This could be transparent as well. When the thread is closed add the buyer and amount sold for as a permeant record. You can also do a lotto system or the fun poker hands that some of the sellers have done. We can have options!

I for one thing the demand is going to continue to grow. I know more and more people that are interested in hosting games at home. We're in the next poker boom IMO. I'm always directing people to this site and vendors that have helped me along the way.

I know some are resistant to change, but is the current system really fair as it is? If you don't sit in the classifieds all day and night you will miss the things you want.

I think not doing anything is the worst idea, as it's going to fester and bubble over more and more.
Yeah, I think it’s totally fair to leave it up to the seller but s/he needs to choose which way to go from the start so there’s no confusion.
 
You might be right about all this, but none of what you said here is going to fix what is going on.


No m2m would be a significant loss and in my opinion is NOT a good solution. I suggested a solution. It might not be perfect, but I am confident that it would be both better than what is going on now AND better than no m2m
You must have missed the previous post where I did suggest a viable solution.
 
You must have missed the previous post where I did suggest a viable solution.
You are right, I did miss this. Your suggestion would most likely be an improvement on the current system, but I still think just getting rid of "Dibs" all together is the best solution

End of drama......
This is -- and can still be -- an open community of good chippers, for the good of all chippers. No secrets, no cut-throat behaviors, and treating each other like friends instead of customers or marks are the start of the return to normalcy around here.
This is what is important, right? Not all that important how it happens, but it is important that it does happen
 
You are right, I did miss this. Your suggestion would most likely be an improvement on the current system, but I still think just getting rid of "Dibs" all together is the best solution





This is what is important, right? Not all that important how it happens, but it is important that it does happen
You are going to need better people for anything to work.
Things shouldn’t have to be “bad people proof”.
They should be more “good people enabling”.
 
I liked the idea of somehow integrating a BUY IT NOW button within the listing. Private or not, once someone clicks and pays, game over. No arguments, no who came first or spoke of it before. As the seller, you take full responsibility by posting an ad with that button, meaning when someone clicks and pays, you are obliged to proceed with the sale.
 
Better close the thread after the button is used. Otherwise it will be filled with “I would have paid xx times that amount” or “I would have gave you my car for them” kind of comments.
I liked the idea of somehow integrating a BUY IT NOW button within the listing. Private or not, once someone clicks and pays, game over. No arguments, no who came first or spoke of it before. As the seller, you take full responsibility by posting an ad with that button, meaning when someone clicks and pays, you are obliged to proceed with the sale.
 
I liked the idea of somehow integrating a BUY IT NOW button within the listing. Private or not, once someone clicks and pays, game over. No arguments, no who came first or spoke of it before. As the seller, you take full responsibility by posting an ad with that button, meaning when someone clicks and pays, you are obliged to proceed with the sale.
This!
 
And stick to that
Yup I agree. Clear terms in post. That would leave the forum owners and admins out of it.
You must have missed the previous post where I did suggest a viable solution.
We don't have to have a single way to sell the chips. Let the seller select his method that he/she choses, it just needs to 100% clear in the original post. Just make it a form with 2-3 methods that the entire community agrees on.
If the seller reverts or does something else then negative feedback should be left for the seller.
 
I liked the idea of somehow integrating a BUY IT NOW button within the listing. Private or not, once someone clicks and pays, game over. No arguments, no who came first or spoke of it before. As the seller, you take full responsibility by posting an ad with that button, meaning when someone clicks and pays, you are obliged to proceed with the sale.
I like the idea of this but one the issues that commonly arises and from this particular sale (and another recently) came from was not specifying entire lot gets the preference.
 

I think the problem here is that it would put some liability on the site owner for the functionality. And I don't think Tommy wants to have to deal with that. If we can figure out that embedded paypal buy it now "button" functionality I think that would work. But the problem there is that anyone going through the effort of doing this would have been the type of person to fair deal without the button anyway.
 
Although it won't entirely solve the problem (new members could just post photos of their pr0n and hope they get offers via PM), I'd like to see the post allocation for posting in the classifieds upped significantly, personally.
 
I like the idea of this but one the issues that commonly arises and from this particular sale (and another recently) came from was not specifying entire lot gets the preference.

I don't know much about code but what about an option to click on item(s) you want reserving those in case a bulk purchase doesn't come in. Seller would be required to indicate a deadline in the system. If someone hasn't scooped up by then, purchase of lots goes through. Every system has its quirks, but trying to think of which one would be the most suitable. Just thinking out loud.
 
Really? Not a very creative solution. Seems to me we can do better

Really? Seems like we should be able to do better, but are failing. Removing the sales threads would keep only the people interested in the hobby present and would cut 90% of the drama.

I don't want it to happen but until people start acting their age, why put up with the constant shit show?
 
I liked the idea of somehow integrating a BUY IT NOW button within the listing. Private or not, once someone clicks and pays, game over. No arguments, no who came first or spoke of it before. As the seller, you take full responsibility by posting an ad with that button, meaning when someone clicks and pays, you are obliged to proceed with the sale.


Yup... that's gonna work until someone says "oh never mind, I choose to keep the chips" and then sells them to someone else. Then this same thread will be posted again.

Are you gonna ban the seller then? What happens when someone misclicks and says $50 instead of $500? Is the seller gonna be obligated to give their chips away?

The ONLY way this shit is gonna stop is if people start treating this as a fun hobby and roll with what happens.
 
I think I'm going to go a different way with my sales threads moving forward. Instead of listing a product and possibly changing the price after listed based on whatever factors, I'm going to hold firm on the price, but reserve the right to change the product for sale. :tup:;)
 
Really? Seems like we should be able to do better, but are failing. Removing the sales threads would keep only the people interested in the hobby present and would cut 90% of the drama.

I don't want it to happen but until people start acting their age, why put up with the constant shit show?
Yup.
I'll be here. I'm done buying other than some sample sets. Done chasing shit and ending up in a shit show again. I'll just enter a bunch of cards mold group buys lol.
 
Yup... that's gonna work until someone says "oh never mind, I choose to keep the chips" and then sells them to someone else. Then this same thread will be posted again.

Are you gonna ban the seller then? What happens when someone misclicks and says $50 instead of $500? Is the seller gonna be obligated to give their chips away?

The ONLY way this shit is gonna stop is if people start treating this as a fun hobby and roll with what happens.

Or that. Overall, seller's need to just be cognizant of how things work and also have a little honor when it comes to letting people have their say on the items for sale. One would be delusional if he or she thinks reneging on a sale involving multiple people is ok. Compare it to the old gentleman's word. When you shake hands, you've mutually conveyed both sides will honor the deal without even saying a word.
 
I was going to say this exact same thing. I feel strongly that the "dibs" system that is in place here is the cause of the vast majority of the problems. All this is doing is pissing people off for various reasons and is completely unnecessary.

There is more animosity here and more arguments here than I have seem on all other forums that I have been involved with combined. This whole dibs thing is ridiculous and should be done away with immediately. No where else do you have the dibs system and no where else do you have all this bickering. I am quite active several other forums, but I will give one example: I am on WatchUSeek (WUS) which is a watch forum and most on there are talking about and buying and selling watches that sell for many multiples of what the biggest & most expensive sets sell for here. That community has 430,000 members which is roughly 43x the number of members that are here. I am quite certain that some members there are profiting far more from buying and selling expensive watches than anyone ever does here just because of the higher buy and sell prices. @ WUS there is no dibs system and I basically never see people bitchin about sales threads and people flipping or any of this BS that seems to be just about the only topic around here.

I understand that the dibs system came about to try and make things more fair by making sales more transparent and in the spirit or making things more fair and to try and prevent problems, but it just does the exact opposite. It puts all this toxic waste out in the public and is creating an unfriendly environment.

To who ever runs this place:
You want to encourage a more inviting environment and get rid of a lot of toxic posts and threads, GET RID OF DIBS immediately!

Up to a now it has worked, not perfect but it has functioned well. Unless a new system is introduced and agreed on, the existing system is in play. Whether you like it or not. When you sign up to use the forum you agree to the rules of the forum.
Now the forum you mentioned works a certain way, if someone went on it and said i dont like the rules and doing it my way. I am sure some turbulence would be had.
 
holy shit you guy need to get off your fucking high horse, "dibs" doesnt mean shit, you know how many people just emailed me to tell me sell to whoever i want?

you think im going to say who the buyer was? you guys are on crack, The butthurt is really strong in here.

Call me whatever the fuck you like, i love salt on my fries. keep brining it. There was only one person who i said i would sell this chips to. THen i got bombarded with emails.

so to make things easier, i made another post saying i will give priority to those who buy more.. THe i had someone locally offer to buy all the lower priced ones. I said i already promised them to the SUPER friendly german. Yeah i love the germans shoot me.. THen this super really easy going guy said, hell take all the WTHC canes,..

I didnt want to deal with the mob of emails, and counter offers. so i just figured i would acution them off the deal doesnt go through.. i dont want hassles form you guys, you annoy the shit out of me and sooo happy i left this shit stain of a community 10 years ago. you have not changed a fucking bit.

Go ahead tell people not to buy from me. but in case anyone else is wondering i have a set of 1000 CPS ill be selling as well. i might keep 300 for myself and them in out of this game.

GOOD FUCKING RIDDENCE TO YOU GREEDY ENTITLED BUNCH!

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