Pocket tens, short handed, deep. (1 Viewer)

[10centguitar]

hero is sitting on $900 from a $60 buy-in?

Why doesn't hero know what to do in this situation?

 

[DrStrange]

Only Mr. Tree offers a max amount - which looks like he would call a shove.

This is the meat of the hand. Hero is curious what other people think!

DrStrange

 

[Mr Tree]

Only Mr. Tree offers a max amount - which looks like he would call a shove.

This is the meat of the hand. Hero is curious what other people think!

DrStrange

I think crazy's tendancies may be netting him a payout here. With only $300-ish behind for him and his wide range I just can't find a fold personally. That being said I would feel a proper moron if he checks a nut straight to me and I do the work for him.

 

[detroitdad]

I think crazy's tendancies may be netting him a payout here. With only $300-ish behind for him and his wide range I just can't find a fold personally. That being said I would feel a proper moron if he checks a nut straight to me and I do the work for him.

Wouldn't be the first time I've felt like a moron at the table, lol.

 

[Trihonda]

OK, after reading the thread again, I just can't put Crazy on 79 (QJ might be more likely), but either way it's improbably that crazy is calling all along on a gutter-shot? Is it possible he was set mining? or has an overpair and limped in? JJ? Seems odd, but I'm leaning more towards the line that (if I'm crazy), I've got a set/two-pair and crap, the straight is getting there, perfect opportunity to rep the straight if it hits...? I think I'm leaning more towards calling any bet.

 

[DrStrange]

Truly, no one can put Crazy on a hand. Not even Crazy.

DrStrange

 

[Ben]

I'm checking behind, and folding to any bet that isn't miniscule (probably $100 max.) Genuine or an act, he's not calling for the 9 to make 2 pair. Thanks for being a giant tellbox, Crazy.

 

[detroitdad]

I'm the only sucker fish betting, lol

 

[Gear]

Crazy's line so far:

Pre-flop: call from SB
Flop: check-call on
Turn: check-call on

Pre-river: chanting for a nine
River:

My read: Crazy has a straight, something like 78 or JQ. He might have 77 or 99, but I cannot put him on an overpair after all that calling. To me there are no other hands Crazy could reasonably be holding that Hero is beating. If he doesn't have a seven or JQ, why would he only call for a nine, and not a seven?

If he checks, I'm checking behind.
If he bets, I'm folding to anything more than about $60.

If this is a bluff, it's masterful. NH-GG

 

[Trihonda]

Maybe he's got 9-10, stuck around on the flop/turn with TP? lol

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

98, 96dd, 92dd (he is crazy after all), there are plenty of hands in his range that we are ahead of. Barring any other reads, if he bets, call. If he is never checking a straight, bet if he checks. Otherwise check behind.

 

[Gear]

98, 96dd, 92dd (he is crazy after all), there are plenty of hands in his range that we are ahead of.

The chanting-for-a-nine is discouraging me from believing he has holdings like that. And really? 9-2 calling a raise PF and check-calling bottom-pair-no-real-kicker on the flop? Even for someone nicknamed Crazy that's a stretch.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

The chanting-for-a-nine is discouraging me from believing he has holdings like that. And really? 9-2 calling a raise PF and check-calling bottom-pair-no-real-kicker on the flop? Even for someone nicknamed Crazy that's a stretch.

I'm a little nuts, and I call for the wrong card all the time to throw my opponents off. Well, every once in awhile I'll call for the card I actually need. And crazy:

Slang. an unpredictable, nonconforming person; oddball:

So he doesn't necessarily have what a conforming predictable person would have, i.e. he may indeed have 92. You can ask the good Dr., but I doubt that's a stretch.

 

[Trihonda]

I'm a little nuts, and I call for the wrong card all the time to throw my opponents off./

This was my thinking too... He might put us on 2p, etc.. and trying to rep a straight (unless he has the 9 already, and if it hits, he improves)... if the seven hits, he hits the straight and it's disquised.. God, the leveling here is hurting my head.

However, Gear has a point, why not call for the 7? Dunno here... Such a sick river card. If he's hit his straight, it's mostest donkish play I've heard the Dr write about in a while...

If JQ, to check-call the flop out of position, with only two overs? and of course your runner, runner str draw?
If 7X ^ same argument... Just sick

Seems like the only thing that makes sense (if he's caught the straight) is he might be playing 67 or 7-10 suited, hit a piece of the flop (enough to stick around), and then improves on the turn with the gutterball?

If he hasn't hit the straight, maybe he's got 9-10 (as suggested earlier), or 89, or 69, or 99? 99 seems unlikely to me, since he's check-calling. One might think he'd raise pre with a decent pair?

 

[Gear]

I'm a little nuts, and I call for the wrong card all the time to throw my opponents off. Well, every once in awhile I'll call for the card I actually need. And crazy:

Slang. an unpredictable, nonconforming person; oddball:

So he doesn't necessarily have what a conforming predictable person would have, i.e. he may indeed have 92. You can ask the good Dr., but I doubt that's a stretch.

Touché... I am a conforming predictable person, at least when it comes to poker, AKA easily bluffed in spots like this.

That's one of the reasons I like these threads, and that I'm trying to participate in them in a more committed way. That is, not just think about what would be the right play, but think about what I would likely actually do in that situation, and then post it (QFT in a way.)

Regardless of outcome, I have learned something from this thread already -- calling for the wrong card. Might have to try that out myself

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Well its a little easier for me because I can identify with crazy. For all I know the good Dr is in one of my home games and he's subtly trolling me

 

[jbutler]

there are degrees of crazy players and not just in terms of their craziness, but in terms of the levels they're willing to go through to get what they want from an opponent.

in my experience, it is a pretty rare breed of crazy who will catch two pair or a set here and value bet it or turn the hand into a bluff to get us off the rare better hands we are holding. so if he was calling for a 9 because he thinks it will give him the best hand - in the form of two pair or a set - he won't likely bet it for value or turn his hand into a bluff because he now perceives it as having significant showdown value.

it's very, very difficult for outsiders to a game like this to make recommendations on play because the right play changes drastically depending on table/gameflow/historical reads that we basically can't know (at least to the degree you would need to know to make the "right" play).

 

[DrStrange]

I agree with the need "to be there'. No normal player can imagine what it is like to play with Crazy on a night he is in top form.

Results soon -=- DrStrange

 

[Trihonda]

I agree with the need "to be there'. No normal player can imagine what it is like to play with Crazy on a night he is in top form.

Results soon -=- DrStrange

Yup, pretty much what I said in my earlier post, lol... go with your live read.

Doesn't help I'm sure, but I'd just go with your gut on this one...... I'd lean towards my live read on whether to call if he bets.

 

[DrStrange]

*** Last chance ***

Crazy spends about 10 seconds taunting Hero doing his happy dance, then bets $31 - his favorite, lucky bet. (into a $300 pot)

Anyone do anything but call?

DrStrange

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

just $31? would he do that into a $300 pot if he really had the straight? A good player might do that to induce a shove, but crazy doesn't necessarily seem to be at that level. I'd be seriously tempted to jam here, but you know your history with crazy better than anyone else.

 

[Trihonda]

*** Last chance ***

Crazy spends about 10 seconds taunting Hero doing his happy dance, then bets $31 - his favorite, lucky bet. (into a $300 pot)

Anyone do anything but call?

DrStrange

Wait... you're slow rolling us... You just said results soon!!!!

I agree with the need "to be there'. No normal player can imagine what it is like to play with Crazy on a night he is in top form.

Results soon -=- DrStrange

I think it smells like a value bet (or designed to induce a shove), but there's no way I'm folding top set for a $31 bet into a $300 pot. Call.

Edited to add, I'm having a change of heart.. (again, not knowing the person all that well), but who hits a monster draw, then acts like they hit it, and expects to get paid off. I know... "crazy" but when you hit your disguised monster hand, wouldn't you want to get some equity out of it? Why jump all over the effin place...? He didn't hit the straight IMHO... I'm still calling, but I'm a bit more confident about my call.

 

[jbutler]

there are degrees of crazy players and not just in terms of their craziness, but in terms of the levels they're willing to go through to get what they want from an opponent.

in my experience, it is a pretty rare breed of crazy who will catch two pair or a set here and value bet it or turn the hand into a bluff to get us off the rare better hands we are holding. so if he was calling for a 9 because he thinks it will give him the best hand - in the form of two pair or a set - he won't likely bet it for value or turn his hand into a bluff because he now perceives it as having significant showdown value.

just $31? would he do that into a $300 pot if he really had the straight? A good player might do that to induce a shove, but crazy doesn't necessarily seem to be at that level. I'd be seriously tempted to jam here, but you know your history with crazy better than anyone else.

should have put an asterisk next to "bet" in my post above to mean actual bet and not this sort of min-bet bullshit which hardly even qualifies as a blocker. not that young daniel negreanu was a font of poker wisdom, but he did say something years and years ago that has held true in my experience: when a player bets an absurdly small amount, treat it as a check.

i am in the chippy camp in terms of doubting that he would bet barely 10% of the pot if he'd actually made the straight. i don't jam, though. he's never (well, it's crazy, so i guess i should say rarely) calling with worse than a set, so there's no value there. but he will never ever ever ever fold anything that resembles a hand for something around a minraise.

the question is how often he is capable of bluff-shoving over your raise. if you've seen him do such a thing on very weird runouts like this and versus opponents who he knows are not in there with total garbage, flat. if you would be shocked to see him do such a thing to you in a spot like this (maybe hard to say given how rarely a spot "like this" would come up), i say make it $100 and watch him call with two pair.

 

[AKA_Tattoo]

shove!

 

[bergs]

*** Last chance ***

Crazy spends about 10 seconds taunting Hero doing his happy dance, then bets $31 - his favorite, lucky bet. (into a $300 pot)

Anyone do anything but call?

DrStrange

I'd flat it.

 

[Mr Tree]

Call, the risk reward ratio is too wild to jam.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Does anyone really think crazy is folding two pair or a set if hero jams?

 

[DrStrange]

Who is going to be the Sucker Fish?

*** results ***

Hero calls.

Crazy tables for the straight. When asked about the flop call, Crazy says he had a flush draw, straight draw and an overcard. And he meant every word.

And we thought someone could put him on a hand?

Buckle up! -=- DrStrange

 

[Shaggy]

yeah flat... there will be better spots to take all of Crazy's money later.

 

[atomiktoaster]

Always count on the runner runner draws. Poker is easy if you're crazy.