Cash Game Pot Limit or Fixed Limit? If fixed, which structure? (3 Viewers)

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Another option is to put a cap on how much a person can lose in a single hand if you decide to play pot limit. That way when players get much deeper later into the night they can’t lose their stack in hand. The down side of this that people see the cap getting close and and just get to that point on the flop a lot of the time.

For this game something in the range of $80-$100!cap per player would probably work.

Interesting thought!

 

[Marius L]

Thanks for the kill explanations. @Seeking Alpha Social Club this sounds like a fun project for you. I have a feeling people are biased towards big bet games, but that exploring new games with fixed limit (or simply enjoying them once explored) sounds real fun to me. Need a new mindset than when playing no limit. And to everyone who is suggesting using Pot limit.... Pot limit is essentially no limit except you can't go all in preflop that easily, and you can't open-overbet. It plays pretty much the same as no limit when in terms of total money in the pot.

 

[Coyote]

I have always thought about 6-card stud (so just 4 betting rounds; not 5), PL, without any forced bet; just a tiny dealer ante to start.
Haven't tried it, though.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Ok one last thread tard vote for PINK CHIP (you can even make this $2.5/$5)

Damn it, you just made me realize that I will need to start paying attention to how I stack my chips. My crap usually looks like this because chip stacking cuts into my drinking...LOL

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Thanks for the kill explanations. @Seeking Alpha Social Club this sounds like a fun project for you. I have a feeling people are biased towards big bet games, but that exploring new games with fixed limit (or simply enjoying them once explored) sounds real fun to me. Need a new mindset than when playing no limit. And to everyone who is suggesting using Pot limit.... Pot limit is essentially no limit except you can't go all in preflop that easily, and you can't open-overbet. It plays pretty much the same as no limit when in terms of total money in the pot.

I'm really excited about it. We played a full mixed game for the first time this past Friday, and I was completely hooked. I found myself much more focused on the game for the first time in years. NLHE has become so second nature that I spend way too much time rolling out shots. We didn't even do one shot this past Friday because we were so focused. I'm sure that will loosen up over time, but it was a blast.

And I completely agree, we played pot limit and it was pretty aggressive.

 

[Coyote]

Biggest trap about Pot Limit, which is supposed to be a brake, is that most people use it as an accelarator, out of laziness.

 

[MrCatPants]

Biggest trap about Pot Limit, which is supposed to be a brake, is that most people use it as an accelarator, out of laziness.

Doesn't pot limit mean there are only three actions? Check, pot, or fold?

 

[Coyote]

Poker connoiseurs (not me) claim that the best format is PL pre-flop and NL post-flop, for community card games, that is.
I 'm just a chip fetishist and rather poker-clueless, so I submit that view
for whatever it's worth.

Probably, for extremely volatile games (including the "Indian Feather", with the last card on your forehead for everyone to see except you), the best way to go is good old PL/NL, at 1/10th of NLHE stakes.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I have always thought about 6-card stud (so just 4 betting rounds; not 5), PL, without any forced bet; just a tiny dealer ante to start.
Haven't tried it, though.

Instead of dropping a street, combine 4th & 5th streets, dealing 2 cards that street.

I'm really excited about it. We played a full mixed game for the first time this past Friday, and I was completely hooked. I found myself much more focused on the game for the first time in years. NLHE has become so second nature that I spend way too much time rolling out shots. We didn't even do one shot this past Friday because we were so focused. I'm sure that will loosen up over time, but it was a blast.

And I completely agree, we played pot limit and it was pretty aggressive.

The mental fatigue of mixed games is real! We play hold’em/PLO/SOHE as our big bet rotation. That game usually ends between 3-4am because we are used to playing hold’em and PLO. When we have limit night with 4 unique games that all have different rules and strategies the game usually ends before 2am. Everyone is mentally drained by then.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Instead of dropping a street, combine 4th & 5th streets, dealing 2 cards that street.



The mental fatigue of mixed games is real! We play hold’em/PLO/SOHE as our big bet rotation. That game usually ends between 3-4am because we are used to playing hold’em and PLO. When we have limit night with 4 unique games that all have different rules and strategies the game usually ends before 2am. Everyone is mentally drained by then.

I actually liked the grind so much that I woke up Saturday morning jonesing for another mixed game.

 

[detroitdad]

I actually liked the grind so much that I woke up Saturday morning jonesing for another mixed game.

You're welcome

 

[JustinInMN]

• For my regular games, starting out with a 3/6 fixed limit structure to suck newbies in without making them feel like they got raked over the coals.
• Eventually, move to a 4/8 structure; at which time I will invest in a dedicated limit set. Although I'm not sure how long I can wait.

3/6 and 4/8 are both runnable with singles so same limit set is useable.

If possible, you could consider adding a bunch of singles to an existing set.

 

[churlbut18]

3/6 and 4/8 are both runnable with singles so same limit set is useable.

If possible, you could consider adding a bunch of singles to an existing set.

Yah but…

Some of the best limit sets on this site are those that consist of $2 chips x 1000+…. I’m just saying…. ;-)

Look at the one @RainmanTrail just posted today…. Amazing…

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Yah but…

Some of the best limit sets on this site are those that consist of $2 chips x 1000+…. I’m just saying…. ;-)

Look at the one @RainmanTrail just posted today…. Amazing…

Yeah....I suspect that the chip degen in me will need something more than just $1s. That's the main reason I want to settle in on the perfect structure before spending a crap ton on chips. I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world to have two different limit sets...LOL!!

 

[JMC9389]

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum for the past 70something posts in this thread, but without reading every single one and only reading the OP, 2/4 or 3/6 fixed limit, especially if the group is new to circus games, sounds absolutely perfect. 25 big bet starting stacks is pretty standard to start a fixed limit night.

 

[grebe]

Just under a thousand of these ready to go, and they are yours to borrow. I know they aren't up to your collections, but they are non denominational so can be $1, $2, or $2.50 (as God intended).

Limit is the best poker, also. It is a culmination if decisions made, not the individual one or two hands that make a winning or losing session.

Let's play!

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I'm sure it's been discussed ad nauseum for the past 70something posts in this thread, but without reading every single one and only reading the OP, 2/4 or 3/6 fixed limit, especially if the group is new to circus games, sounds absolutely perfect. 25 big bet starting stacks is pretty standard to start a fixed limit night.

I think 3/6 will be the starting point and we will adjust as needed. Thanks!

Just under a thousand of these ready to go, and they are yours to borrow. I know they aren't up to your collections, but they are non denominational so can be $1, $2, or $2.50 (as God intended).

Limit is the best poker, also. It is a culmination if decisions made, not the individual one or two hands that make a winning or losing session.

Let's play!View attachment 790763

Will definitely take you up on this. Thanks!!

 

[Rhodeman77]

Every group is different, but my players didn’t like all of the $1 chips for $3/6. A few even asked where the $5 chips were. A 2/4 chip structure works best. It also makes splitting pots easier with less total chips in the pot.

I would not want to play $4/8 with $1 chips.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Every group is different, but my players didn’t like all of the $1 chips for $3/6. A few even asked where the $5 chips were. A 2/4 chip structure works best. It also makes splitting pots easier with less total chips in the pot.

I would not want to play $4/8 with $1 chips.

So, I was thinking I would need a $2 workhorse for 4/8 and a $3 workhorse for 3/6. Am I think about that correct?

 

[Rhodeman77]

So, I was thinking I would need a $2 workhorse for 4/8 and a $3 workhorse for 3/6. Am I think about that correct?

$2 chip for $4/8 is best in my opinion. $1 chip is best for $3/6.

You really only want 1 denomination on the table. So with a 1/2 chip structure you need some $1 chips for the small blind.

$3 chips are better for $6/12 or $9/18.

You could also use a $2 chip set to play $6/12. You would just change the SB to $2 or $4 instead of $3. No bid deal. Overall $2 chip is much more versatile than $3 chip sets.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

$2 chip for $4/8 is best in my opinion. $1 chip is best for $3/6.

You really only want 1 denomination on the table. So with a 1/2 chip structure you need some $1 chips for the small blind.

$3 chips are better for $6/12 or $9/18.

You could also use a $2 chip set to play $6/12. You would just change the SB to $2 or $4 instead of $3. No bid deal. Overall $2 chip is much more versatile than $3 chip sets.

Got it. Thanks!!

 

[RainmanTrail]

I've always been primarily a limit player. Whenever I play in casinos, they generally try to keep it to 3-chip or 4-chip games with a few exceptions for 2-chip games. But all the card rooms I've played at (west of the Mississippi) run limit games as follows:

$1 chips for
2-4, 3-6, and 4-8

$2 chips for
6-12 and 8-16

$3 chips for
9-18 and 12-24

$5 chips for
10-20, 15-30, and 20-40

$10 chips for
30-60 and 40-80

$20 chips for
60-120 and 80-160

$25 chips for
75-150

I've never played higher than 75-150 though, other than online, so I'm not sure what they use for fair high stakes games, but I assume the trend continues. But the general idea is to not have games where it's just one chip per bet because the pots look too small (like playing a $5-10 limit game with $5 chips) and to not have games with too many chips to where you can't tell how many chips someone is betting from across the table without counting the stacks (think 6-12 or 8-16 with $1 chips, oof!). You want the pots to look big and the stack sizes to be manageable. 3-chip and 4-chip games usually provide the ideal balance.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

I've always been primarily a limit player. Whenever I play in casinos, they generally try to keep it to 3-chip or 4-chip games with a few exceptions for 2-chip games. But all the card rooms I've played at (west of the Mississippi) run limit games as follows:

$1 chips for
2-4, 3-6, and 4-8

$2 chips for
6-12 and 8-16

$3 chips for
9-18 and 12-24

$5 chips for
10-20, 15-30, and 20-40

$10 chips for
30-60 and 40-80

$20 chips for
60-120 and 80-160

$25 chips for
75-150

I've never played higher than 75-150 though, other than online, so I'm not sure what they use for fair high stakes games, but I assume the trend continues. But the general idea is to not have games where it's just one chip per bet because the pots look too small (like playing a $5-10 limit game with $5 chips) and to not have games with too many chips to where you can't tell how many chips someone is betting from across the table without counting the stacks (think 6-12 or 8-16 with $1 chips, oof!). You want the pots to look big and the stack sizes to be manageable. 3-chip and 4-chip games usually provide the ideal balance.

Awesome, thanks Travis!!

 

[grebe]

$2 chip for $4/8 is best in my opinion. $1 chip is best for $3/6.

You really only want 1 denomination on the table. So with a 1/2 chip structure you need some $1 chips for the small blind.

$3 chips are better for $6/12 or $9/18.

You could also use a $2 chip set to play $6/12. You would just change the SB to $2 or $4 instead of $3. No bid deal. Overall $2 chip is much more versatile than $3 chip sets.

I agree with all this.

 

[JustinInMN]

I've always been primarily a limit player. Whenever I play in casinos, they generally try to keep it to 3-chip or 4-chip games with a few exceptions for 2-chip games. But all the card rooms I've played at (west of the Mississippi) run limit games as follows:

$1 chips for
2-4, 3-6, and 4-8

$2 chips for
6-12 and 8-16

$3 chips for
9-18 and 12-24

$5 chips for
10-20, 15-30, and 20-40

$10 chips for
30-60 and 40-80

$20 chips for
60-120 and 80-160

$25 chips for
75-150

I've never played higher than 75-150 though, other than online, so I'm not sure what they use for fair high stakes games, but I assume the trend continues. But the general idea is to not have games where it's just one chip per bet because the pots look too small (like playing a $5-10 limit game with $5 chips) and to not have games with too many chips to where you can't tell how many chips someone is betting from across the table without counting the stacks (think 6-12 or 8-16 with $1 chips, oof!). You want the pots to look big and the stack sizes to be manageable. 3-chip and 4-chip games usually provide the ideal balance.

This is also my experience having played limit in cardrooms for over 18 years now.

Generally I see 4/8 played with singles, but I have seen it played with twos as well in mixed games with split pots.

I have also seen 50/100 played with twenty-fives.

The rest are spot on. I did once have the occasion to play 12/24 half kill at the Bicycle Club with threes .

But my point is unless you think you are getting 6/12, don't worry about anything but singles.

If you think you will get to 6/12 consider twos or threes.

 

[RainmanTrail]

To answer the question in the OP, I would suggest not playing below $4/8. A $2/4 game is going to feel like micro-stakes for your crew, and a $3/6 game is going to be disappointing to the "big winners" every night. $4/8 is really where the stakes will begin to feel familiar, but even a $6/12 game probably wouldn't feel to heavy for your crew. You might consider a spread limit game too, something like $2-10 spread can work, although sometimes that game gets played more like a $2 OR $10 game, which is often less fun. I would suggest sticking to $4/8 at first and seeing how everyone likes it. If you guys feel like you want bigger pots and people are comfortable losing more at the end of the night without wanting to slash anyone's tires, then bump it up to $6/12.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

To answer the question in the OP, I would suggest not playing below $4/8. A $2/4 game is going to feel like micro-stakes for your crew, and a $3/6 game is going to be disappointing to the "big winners" every night. $4/8 is really where the stakes will begin to feel familiar, but even a $6/12 game probably wouldn't feel to heavy for your crew. You might consider a spread limit game too, something like $2-10 spread can work, although sometimes that game gets played more like a $2 OR $10 game, which is often less fun. I would suggest sticking to $4/8 at first and seeing how everyone likes it. If you guys feel like you want bigger pots and people are comfortable losing more at the end of the night without wanting to slash anyone's tires, then bump it up to $6/12.

I suspect this will be where we land. Thanks!

 

[detroitdad]

Every group is different, but my players didn’t like all of the $1 chips for $3/6

Where my group is different. I believe everyone enjoys the 3/6 game with $1.00 chips. I have thought of moving to $3.00 chips for funsies

Kevin, I definitely recommend borrowing a limit set first. Your group may hate playing FL.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Where my group is different. I believe everyone enjoys the 3/6 game with $1.00 chips. I have thought of moving to $3.00 chips for funsies

Kevin, I definitely recommend borrowing a limit set first. Your group may hate playing FL.

I 100% agree!! I'm not sure if I will like FL. I definitely want a giant FL set, probably with $2s or $3s instead of $1s, but I need to see if I/we even like FL first. I LOVED pot limit, but the variance was crazy, especially on scarney. Maybe that was half the appeal though...LOL.

 

[Legend5555]

I'd say 3/6 or 4/8 is the right spot.

DO NOT do pot limit right away when teaching people mixed games. Pot Limit when people don't understand split pot games is just a recipe for them losing money insanely fast.