Cash Game Pot Limit or Fixed Limit? If fixed, which structure? (1 Viewer)

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Well the good news is they can only do that with each other's repeated cooperation ("bet!" "raise!" "reraise!" "cap!") and although they might drag some innocent bystanders along with them at first, pretty soon people will learn to get out of the way lest they get whipsawed.

Well...you pretty much hit the problem on the head. So now add Stan, Rob, and John D into the mix. All solid players, but pretty aggressive. They love to engage Gunny and Rich and before you know it.....somebody's on their 10th rebuy.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Here is the thing though....
Every player has a hard stop (quitting point), but for some that hard stop is a lot different than for others. I'll give 2 examples that are at the opposite end of the spectrum. Player Nitty Ned and Wild Will. If Ned loses $100 more than 2 or 3 times in a row he will stop coming and Will is not only wild gambler, but he also is an attorney that makes a lot of money, is not married and doesn't mind blowing a few thousand every week or two.

You have to read your players and try and figure out where that quitting point is and adjust either the limit, the game or both to suit your crowd so that your players are not busting out for good and never coming back.

Good news/bad news is...my aggressive/bust out players (1) are both Marines, so they don't know the word quit and (2) they never piss and moan about their losses; or occasional big wins. Great group of peeps who enjoy drinking, playing poker and/or gambling.

 

[JustinInMN]

... and this was hold'em? Not some wacky circus game?

Canterbury Park does spread 10/20 mix with the red chips, and 40/80 mix with tan chips as well. I don't know if there are any circus games, but they mix in forms of omaha, stud, and lowball.

 

[Nanook]

Good news/bad news is...my aggressive/bust out players (1) are both Marines, so they don't know the word quit and (2) they never piss and moan about their losses; or occasional big wins. Great group of peeps who enjoy drinking, playing poker and/or gambling.

Well in this case you have to sort of guess a little. Factors that come into play are how often does your game go, do those players also play elsewhere, how much disposable income do your players have, how much would you guess they might lose in a month or year before quitting permanently etc. Adjust the game accordingly...

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Good morning,

So I got a chance to test fixed limit with my new limit set and I gotta say, the poll was right with respect to 2/4. It's not the game for us. I'm likely going to skip 3/6 and jump right to 4/8. We played 8 people and 3 of them never played mixed games before. So I thought I would be nice and keep it low at 2/4. Well that was a damn mistake because we might as well have just been playing $20 buck up. Bet, raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and re-re-re-raise on every street with 5 or 6 player calling and raising everything to the river. I lost count of how many times @grebe commented that he has never seen anything like it. Not being able to punish the limpers and the chasers SUCKED!!

So far we have played pot limit and 2/4. By far my favorite out of the two has been pot limit. I'm skipping 3/6 and going to 4/8 next time and I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you everybody for your feedback!!

 

[JustinInMN]

I'm skipping 3/6 and going to 4/8 next time and I'll let you know how it goes.

Surprised to hear you started at 2/4, but glad this is now the plan. Now you should design SASC $2 chips as churlbut suggested .

My suggestion…. Progress from $4/$8 to $6/$12 and skip $5/$10 (awful). This way you can support both limits with a $2 chip set…. $5/$10 should never be played…. Lol…. You need a $5 chip and it is only a 1 chip / 2 chip structure which sucks…

 

[buzzmonkey]

Good morning,

So I got a chance to test fixed limit with my new limit set and I gotta say, the poll was right with respect to 2/4. It's not the game for us. I'm likely going to skip 3/6 and jump right to 4/8. We played 8 people and 3 of them never played mixed games before. So I thought I would be nice and keep it low at 2/4. Well that was a damn mistake because we might as well have just been playing $20 buck up. Bet, raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and re-re-re-raise on every street with 5 or 6 player calling and raising everything to the river. I lost count of how many times @grebe commented that he has never seen anything like it. Not being able to punish the limpers and the chasers SUCKED!!

So far we have played pot limit and 2/4. By far my favorite out of the two has been pot limit. I'm skipping 3/6 and going to 4/8 next time and I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you everybody for your feedback!!

Part of the strategy is not punishing the limpers but exploiting them. I found this book useful when playing 2/4 and 4/8 at Foxwoods.

https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Low-Limit-Holdem-Lee-Jones/dp/1886070237

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Part of the strategy is not punishing the limpers but exploiting them. I found this book useful when playing 2/4 and 4/8 at Foxwoods.

https://www.amazon.com/Winning-Low-Limit-Holdem-Lee-Jones/dp/1886070237

I completely agree, and I LOVE exploiting limpers. But I found it VERY tough to exploit them when there were 5 or 6 of them on every hand. Everybody drew to everything.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Surprised to hear you started at 2/4, but glad this is now the plan. Now you should design SASC $2 chips as churlbut suggested .

Yeah...it was a huge mistake. I was trying to be kind to the newbies by giving them a low entrance fee, but it ended up being a shit show.

And yes...I suspect $2 SASC chips will get designed at some point

 

[buzzmonkey]

I completely agree, and I LOVE exploiting limpers. But I found it VERY tough to exploit them when there were 5 or 6 of them on every hand. Everybody drew to everything.

Jones calls it "implicit collusion". Your opponents aren't actively colluding against you but because they're coming along en masse you're at An overall disadvantage even with your premium hands, so hands like big suited connectors actually go up in value. JTs becomes a very powerful hammer to win large pots with.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

Jones calls it "implicit collusion". Your opponents aren't actively colluding against you but because they're coming along en masse you're at An overall disadvantage even with your premium hands, so hands like big suited connectors actually go up in value. JTs becomes a very powerful hammer to win large pots with.

I'll do more research on that. Thanks!!

 

[CrazyEddie]

lots of limpers means you win fewer pots and more money

are you trying to win pots
or are you trying to win money

 

[Rhodeman77]

@Seeking Alpha Social Club what games were played? Dealers choice or a set rotation, or even a single game?

I think I mentioned my group played $2/4 the first game as well and hated it. Way too small. Even if players don’t know the games they need to feel the rush and that won’t happen if they are used to playing a bigger game.

I’d also recommend adding a kill or 1/2 kill. The big turn and river bets really punish players coming along with weak draws. The biggest mistake most players make is preflop, deciding to play a hand or not. Once they see a flop the pot odds keep getting better to chase slims odds. All it takes to have a really good night is to scoop one or two of the big multi-way pots that gets capped turn and river 4 ways. Trust me, they will happen often enough.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

lots of limpers means you win fewer pots and more money

are you trying to win pots
or are you trying to win money

I'm pretty patient and agree in theory. I lost about 170ish, so not a horrible night. It was just one of those nights where every chaser hit on the river.

I tried to pick my spots, and there were 5 or 6 very large pots that I got drawn out on on the river. Flopped broadway with a spade flush draw. Runner runner diamond draw hits on the river. Nut flush....and the board pairs on the river giving 2 or 3 people a boat. Just tough to pick my spots when 5 or 6 players out of 8 are chasing everything to the river.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

@Seeking Alpha Social Club what games were played? Dealers choice or a set rotation, or even a single game?

I think I mentioned my group played $2/4 the first game as well and hated it. Way too small. Even if players don’t know the games they need to feel the rush and that won’t happen if they are used to playing a bigger game.

I’d also recommend adding a kill or 1/2 kill. The big turn and river bets really punish players coming along with weak draws. The biggest mistake most players make is preflop, deciding to play a hand or not. Once they see a flop the pot odds keep getting better to chase slims odds. All it takes to have a really good night is to scoop one or two of the big multi-way pots that gets capped turn and river 4 ways. Trust me, they will happen often enough.

We started out alternating between NLHE and Omaha so people could learn Omaha. Moved to dealer's choice after a couple of hours

You are 100% right. I felt the rush when we played pot limit, but 2/4 with this group was equivalent to playing slots and hoping to get lucky.

I will explore using a kill. Thanks!!

 

[CrazyEddie]

I tried to pick my spots, and there were 5 or 6 very large pots that I got drawn out on on the river. Flopped broadway with a spade flush draw. Runner runner diamond draw hits on the river. Nut flush....and the board pairs on the river giving 2 or 3 people a boat.

You won every one of those hands.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Split pot games are great for limit. With 5/8 players getting to the river. 1 player winning that bloated pot makes it tough to get that money back. But when 2 (or more) people get a piece of the pot it spreads the money back out more.

 

[joepro]

I picked up these buttons/ lammers recently, they may or may not be useful for mixed games. I think laminated placards are also used frequently, but I played in at least one game in a casino in which the kill button was used to place a third blind in a kill pot, the dealer would place the blind on top of the lammer.

 

[Nanook]

I would say that of those 6, there is really only one or at most 2 that are really useful. The Kill button is the useful one. It can be used for a kill game or a 1/2 kill game depending upon preference. Of course you could use the 1/2 Kill button if you are playing 1/2 Kill only. On the other side of the kill buttons it should say "Leg Up." These buttons help keep track of who & when the kill rule goes into effect.

Kill & 1/2 Kill games have become very popular. The kill is just another thing that encourages action. In my opinion anything that encourages action is a good thing so I am a fan.

 

[warma]

We play hi-low split pots in limit. That button could be useful. The Hold ‘Em or Omaha would use useful if you play those two games and alternate.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Isn't the easiest way to tell whether you're playing Hold'em or Omaha to just count the cards in your hand? I guess having a button might be handy if you're doing self-deal instead of dedicated-dealer, so that the next dealer remembers how many cards to deal.

Hi-Low seems like a nice reminder to have sitting out on the table. Maybe have a two-sided button with "Lowball" on the other side... or maybe it's best to make that a separate button so that it doesn't accidentally get flipped? For my game I might also want a button for "Declare"; some of the games in my mix use that and it might be good to have a reminder since it plays very differently from standard hi-low.

For anyone who's using these kinds of buttons - where do you put them when they're in play? Next to the board? Where do you put them when they're not in play? In front of the dealer? If it's self-dealt, do you move them around to follow the dealer or just leave them off to one side near the rail somewhere?

 

[grebe]

Good morning,

So I got a chance to test fixed limit with my new limit set and I gotta say, the poll was right with respect to 2/4. It's not the game for us. I'm likely going to skip 3/6 and jump right to 4/8. We played 8 people and 3 of them never played mixed games before. So I thought I would be nice and keep it low at 2/4. Well that was a damn mistake because we might as well have just been playing $20 buck up. Bet, raise, re-raise, re-re-raise, and re-re-re-raise on every street with 5 or 6 player calling and raising everything to the river. I lost count of how many times @grebe commented that he has never seen anything like it. Not being able to punish the limpers and the chasers SUCKED!!

So far we have played pot limit and 2/4. By far my favorite out of the two has been pot limit. I'm skipping 3/6 and going to 4/8 next time and I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you everybody for your feedback!!

The funny thing about this game: we switched to 1/1 NLHE and the pots were like $10....nobody was willing to put their stacks out. Go back to Omaha and the pots were north of $60 getting capped on every street. Players that were reraising in limit were limping in NL.

I think the main problem was that people didnt understand how weak their omaha hands actually were, because they hadnt played before. In holdem terms, their top two pair is a monster. So many straights capped all streets losing to flushes.

I am unsure of the strategy of how to get this game to settle in besides some hard knocks and big swings. Pot limit would make for some very big swings indeed. Quite possibly a few early nights going home broke.

I played pretty tight to the vest in limit and exploitatively in NL and ended up with a moderate win. The big winners ran hot as the sun and got paid off by those that did not understand how weak their hands were. Nothing to do but play tight and hope the cards turned your way.

It was a fun night of cards with pot after massive pot! Cant wait for the next time around!

 

[BonScot]

@Seeking Alpha Social Club just resuscitating this thread to see if you’re still playing fixed limit and if 4/8 is still the best structure for your game.

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

@Seeking Alpha Social Club just resuscitating this thread to see if you’re still playing fixed limit and if 4/8 is still the best structure for your game.

Unfortunately, it was too much of a pain in the ass with my peeps. The only bet they knew was....POT, or the max bet in a fixed limit game. The betting was stupid and they chased everything. Thus, I sold my limit set.

 

[detroitdad]

@Seeking Alpha Social Club just resuscitating this thread to see if you’re still playing fixed limit and if 4/8 is still the best structure for your game.

4/8 works great with my group. It plays really close to our standard stakes/buy in

 

[Seeking Alpha Social Club]

4/8 works great with my group. It plays really close to our standard stakes/buy in

I was hoping, but no dice with my peeps. Anything new is a tough sell.