The Redneck Poker Card Database (4 Viewers)

[Dix]

Added one more thing to the review I forgot to mention.

 

[TheWhat]

I wonder how usage of cards might change the feel. Say brand x and brand y have similar characteristics to start, would they feel the same after 40 hours of use? 100 hours? Do some change a lot while others not at all? And do some change then hit a threshold and remain constant?

Great resource. Even if it’s with the wrong size cards

Was surprised about the Faded Spades sticking together, we don't have that problem here. We do have a problem with them getting scattered all over table a couple times per night. Users find them to slippery, but now wondering if that is because of their Flex rating?

 

[BGinGA]

Our 1st attempt even has a month's head start on yours.

I'm thinking..... somewhere out on the Atlantic, in a corner of the dark, greasy, engine room of an old diesel clunker... there's a poker game going on you and/or I may have provided the cards for.

And they're using my missing sample set chips (shipped late-April from Europe) as card-cappers.

 

[Dix]

Was surprised about the Faded Spades sticking together, we don't have that problem here. We do have a problem with them getting scattered all over table a couple times per night. Users find them to slippery, but now wondering if that is because of their Flex rating?

Are you sure we're talking about the same cards here?..... the ones that feel like they were printed on sandpaper & then clear-coated?

OK.... I'm sure we are... but I had to ask......

I see players scatter cards all the time.... usually it's those who are used to doing the "bridge riffle" with old worn out paper cards. They can scatter near any deck of decent plastics, regardless of quality/condition.

That said however, when it comes to what I refer to as deal-ability in any of my reviews... I'm sure it has to do with my touch & I'm probably a "worst case scenario".

With specific regard to FS.... In order to get a single card to push off the top of the deck I really had to pay attention to it & make sure that I had my fore or middle finger up past the top of the deck enough that I could use enough force down with my thumb to create some friction/drag between the lower card & finger(s) so the thumb could push the top card only off the deck. (if any of that makes sense) & when I have to pay that much attention just to dealing out the cards (which seriously slows the process down) I'm not likely to put up with 'em very long. I've got too many other decks where I don't have to deal with that.

Which, kinda sucks.... because I love the looks of 'em.

Granted, it was a brand new deck, & they probably didn't even get past break-in at all before I swapped them out. I had a similar issue with the "Joker" brand I reviewed above, but at least those seemed to come around after a dozen or two shuffles.

What's interesting is I see people gripe all the time about decks where one single card always seems to want to slide off the deck when they put the deck on the table. As a dealer, I LOVE decks like that... I can deal those all night without ever even thinking about it, & pretty much never accidentally pitch more than one card at a time.

 

[Dix]

And they're using my missing sample set chips (shipped late-April from Europe) as card-cappers.

Frustrating as all get out, I know.... Heck, I only last week got a certain electronic part for an older guitar amp I could only manage to find from an Australian source. I ordered it 3 months ago. Which used to be about 3 weeks.... tops.

Pair of sled pistons from Austria, set of guitar tuning machines from Germany.... both still MIA.

 

[surfik]

Frustrating as all get out, I know.... Heck, I only last week got a certain electronic part for an older guitar amp I could only manage to find from an Australian source. I ordered it 3 months ago. Which used to be about 3 weeks.... tops.

Pair of sled pistons from Austria, set of guitar tuning machines from Germany.... both still MIA.

Count in missing deck...

 

[Dix]

I added a "Who Owns Who" section to the database. Covering the known usual suspects in the premium (non Asian) end of the spectrum.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

 

[Dix]

Frustrating as all get out, I know.... Heck, I only last week got a certain electronic part for an older guitar amp I could only manage to find from an Australian source. I ordered it 3 months ago. Which used to be about 3 weeks.... tops.

Pair of sled pistons from Austria, set of guitar tuning machines from Germany.... both still MIA.

Not to hijack my own topic or anything.... but.....

As a somewhat humorous addition to the current international shipping frustration/mess.....

Back sometime in January or February I ordered a cheap little "LED Tester" off eBay. It's one of those cheap "handy to have" type tools if you play with electronics much, as this particular one allows for various current limiting options which varies the brightness of an LED. So, rather than going through a bunch of trial & error with swapping out resistors, you can pop an LED in the thing, & try various current values to figure out what value resistor you would want to end up using as a current limiter in the circuit. & it was dirt cheap... like 3 bucks including shipping. Naturally.... from China.

Well, I got a late birthday present in the mailbox a few days ago. Yea, that LED tester. I'd ordered it so long ago & for so cheap that I had completely forgotten I'd even ordered one.

Talk about the proverbial "slow boat to/from China".

 

[Dix]

& speaking of Birthday Presents........

@surfik is a sneaky SOB. When I called him my "Clandestine East Poland Operative" I thought I was trying to be humorous. Shows how much I know.

At any rate, back when we finally managed to get a couple sets of Trefl over here for database testing & review there was a bonus in the package. Now, I didn't think too much of 'em, 'cause you see casino branded decks on eBay all the time, & they're usually cheap paper knockoffs from the casino's gift shop or used/cancelled decks that have been pulled from the casino floor.

So, I was a little surprised when what I got was a brand new, unused, Tobago Casino Club branded plastic deck.

& yes, the Tobago Casino Club is an actual casino located in Riga, Latvia. So, I guess you could call this a database update & review of the cards that Cartamundi produces for casino use.

CARTAMUNDI "Casino Branded"​

So, 1st things 1st, these are obviously some kind of "bulk" sale/sell-off. There was no box, just a deck of the cards in the factory cello wrapper. No big deal, I have plenty of old/unused tuck-boxes & deck cases around this joint to spare. I have a suspicion as to why these may have been sold off unused, but I'll get to that in a minute.

A couple things hit me right off the bat upon unwrapping the deck....

First, they felt VERY flexible. Way more flexible than pretty much anything else in the inventory. The flex meter test confirmed that all right. & NO, this is NOT a typo.... a flex score of 25. A full 5 degrees more than the current Cellulose flex champ Modiano Texas Poker.

Somewhat surprising, given that, was the thickness at .0115". I expected them to be thinner, more like the Cartamundi Classic at .0105" or even a half a thou less.

Which brings me to surprise #2.... They are NOT PVC. Which, if they were, there's no way in Hades they'd be that flexible without being thinner. Straight out of the cello & they passed the PVC sniff test, as well as all other examination to confirm they are indeed cellulose-acetate.

Finish is what I'm going to call matte/matte. It's not quite the luxurious "linen" finish of other decks, but not that far off really. They feel very nice & are a real no-brainer pleasure to deal. & the softness makes doing the corner riffle a breeze.

OK.... so... what's going on here? How can cards obviously this good, & acetate cards no less, be so cheap?

If I had to render a guess, I'd say these were pulled by QC & sold off as "factory seconds". Now, before you freak out... let me explain.

I'd have no problem putting this deck in play at any game. There's nothing about any card that makes it "unique" from any other. And, nothing that your average player is ever going to notice in a typical poker game.

That said however, there is a "flaw" in them that obviously didn't make it past someone somewhere in the line from initial production to casino table.

It's hard to describe, & impossible to photograph, but, about 1/4" of one edge of each card is ever so slightly thicker (by about .0005" - 1/2 a thousandth of an inch) than the rest of the card. & it's not even really possible to feel it without pinching a card between the fingers of one hand & sliding it back & forth between them. Then you can JUST barely feel a difference in that one end of each card. Also, if you hold a card at just the right angle to a light source, then, you can see it.

It's so slight, I didn't even pick up on it when I was initially measuring thickness. It wasn't until I figured it out that I was able to go back & actually measure it by paying close attention to exactly where I was measuring.

You can also see the effect of it after you've shuffled the deck a few times & the thicker edge is now randomly on the opposite side of the deck of some. If you hold the deck in your hand & look at the edge, it looks like the edges of some are randomly not actually in contact with the card(s) just above and/or below it depending on which direction the one next to it is facing.

If these decks never made it to the casino & were pulled by Cartamundi before they left the factory, that says a lot for their quality control. Because you really have to be paying a lot of attention to even notice it. Modiano could take a lesson here if that's the case.

The only mystery in my mind is HOW this happened.

At 1st I was thinking that it was an issue in the coating process. But, the fact that cards are printed on large sheets & cut into individual cards later makes that impossible, as the issue is exactly the same on the same edge of every individual card. Best guess I can come up with is something during the cutting process went sideways. Or during sorting/packaging maybe.

Now, again, let me add here. None of this effects the general feel & handling them. They shuffle, feel, & deal like any other good deck of acetate cards (albeit somewhat softer), and I'd have no issues with using 'em all night long. In fact, as a dealer, I suspect I'd rather enjoy the experience given the softness & deal-ability.

There are a couple "curiosities" though....

First off, these are obviously meant for casino use. While the backs of all the "working" cards of the deck have the casino's brand on the backs, The backs of not just the promo/info cards, but even BOTH of the jokers, have the backs split in two & sporting both the casino & Cartamundi's logos. So playing any game that requires use of the jokers is impossible.

They're jumbo index. & the word "jumbo" is an understatement. I could read the up cards of the player at the other end of the table during a game of stud without my glasses easily.

The only "niggle" I have is the font used. In some numerals it almost resembles that annoying "LED Display" type font that we all grew to hate a decade ago.

I'm all for using bold fonts to give a unique & easier to read face. But, this one's a little weird looking. Maybe a sans-serif version would have been a better choice.

All in all, if I was looking for a bulk buy for our MTTs, & I could score a deal of these for a cheap price I'd be all over 'em. They're as good as any good acetate card out there, & beat the pants of many more expensive decks made of PVC.

As always, specs are now in the database: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

 

[Phyffe]

I added a "Who Owns Who" section to the database. Covering the known usual suspects in the premium (non Asian) end of the spectrum.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

Neat addition, though you may want to add the Bicycle sub-brands, though they may not be plastic cards, like Rambler and Bee. Think Bee made a plastic or two?

 

[Dix]

I'll keep that in mind. Although, sticking with plastics for now, the next addition will likely be for the Asian brands that are currently listed in the database. Which I think boils down mostly to a pair of 'em. One in Taiwan & one in China.

 

[surfik]

Dear Dix and fellow PCFers....,

I consider myself proud Polish, "citizen of the world" and a poker player. Always proud of my fluent English I had to google "clandestine" but SOB part I have figured myself....

But kidding aside...let me tell you about Cartamundi Tobago Club cards and how I get them, this needs some backstory so you can skip this part or be patiente..

I used to organazied day to day operations for a group of about 30 rotating rounders and recreational players in Warsaw. We found 2 tables in Warsaw pool house that were reserved for our group for perpetuity every Friday and Saturday. Despite having regular job I was like 90% of a time bank person, bougt cards, chips and so on. We have not been "closed" group. We welcomed everyone aside of drunks and obiously aggresive persons lookin for different kind of action than preflop betting. After a year or two we become sort of "famouse" as being one of two places were you can openly play cash game in Warsaw despite law prohibition (suprisingly during 8 years run we never been bothered by police).
First cards I aquired were 4 standard pip Modiano Old Trophy bough from the lady that was closing her online shop. They were great improvement over paper cards that we used at the beginning, that is why I still have a bit of sentiment for Modiano Ace of Spade, my first plastic cards. They were not without, obvious for me now, flaws, warping and wearing of.
Secondly like any other person that is lacking poker skills I start surrounding myself with most proffesional poker equipment I could lay my hands on. I bough set of KEM Arrow Jumbo Index from late Cara Gail's and me and my closest "poker friend" bougt together 800 piece ceramic cash set Old Havana Poker Club that I will cherish for the rest of by life.
The game evolved, more a more people were joining us for the evening. That resulted with accidents and neccesity to switch decks more often, dont get me wrong Kems are great but they not bullet proof. I bought large pack of Kem Circle Back sets from some tournament director in USA and found a way to go pass shipping fees (Catolic Chrch post), but I was still reluctant to put them to the game seeing how people are treating them. I tried some decks like Gemaco, PartyPoker green back promotional, Aces but they were good for just a few evenings.
And than I found offer of some guy from Lativia selling Cartamundi poker sized decks in a very tempting price. I have bought about 20 decks. To my suprise they arrived in plastic post bag. All decks broke loose from cello wrapand I was swamped with cards. Having no cardboard boxes was a downsite. I used cards for poker tournament and they proved good for shuffling and dealing.

I kept thinking of them ...I finnaly bough over hundred decks for a very very good price, even got a discount for loose 20. This solved my problems in a long run.
First my heart was no longer bleeding when someone was treating cards with utter disrespect, at any sign of demage I just replaced a deck, and when some students were questioning the deck we played as possibly marked I just placed 10 cellofane sealed decks in front of them and let them pick.

If Dix would not point out little imperfections that I have never noticed to this day I would never spot them. We played this decks for years and that was never an issue. I love this cards because they shuffle like butter, they deal very good on the big table, jumbo indexes are on the verge of magnum size. They do not bend, warp or break, propobly thanks to being so flexible. My friend who is working in casino pointed to me that this cards are distinctively made for Black Jack shuffle machines. That is propable. Only complain I have is that after about 3 months of excesive use the backs are start loosing ink, the closest comparisment to them I know that they loose ink like Modianos.

Having said that I must state that I have never considered them as casino "seconds". But ...I have sold like 10 decks on PCF with a good faith.
So ....If someone has any issues with borders I will refound money of exchange them with other decks......

I hope you like the story....happiest time of my life.....

 

[Dix]

If Dix would not point out little imperfections that I have never noticed to this day I would never spot them. We played this decks for years and that was never an issue. I love this cards because they shuffle like butter, they deal very good on the big table, jumbo indexes are on the verge of magnum size. They do not bend, warp or break, propobly thanks to being so flexible. My friend who is working in casino pointed to me that this cards are distinctively made for Black Jack shuffle machines. That is propable.

I'm pulling this part of @surfik 's post out for emphasis. I agree 110% with it.

The "imperfection" I found, was discovered totally by accident, & only because I can be something of an OCD nit for certain details. You can trust the above statement (which I also stated) that, unless you go specifically looking for it, 99.99% of people are not likely to even notice it.

I was sitting happily riffling & pitching cards in a mock "deal" for a good 10 minutes straight just to be sure I had a good feel for 'em to judge. & comparing 'em to a few other decks I have just for giggles. It was only when I dropped a couple cards from another deck & bent down to pick those up did I happen to get a close look at the piled deck of these cards on the edge of the table. & I thought I saw something a tad strange. (the effect of the "thick" edges now being randomly opposite each other) It was at that point I started "putting them under the microscope" if you will.

You can't feel it normally. You can only see it if you hold a card face up at JUST the right angle to a light source, or closely look at the edges of a deck that has been shuffled a few times (enough to have alternating groups of cards facing the opposite direction from each other). & that microscopic "imperfection" is 100% exactly the same on every single card. So, yes, I'd have absolutely have ZERO issues putting the deck in play.

Actually, I WISH Cartamundi offered these for general sale & I could find a reliable north american source. I'd be all over 'em like stink on a manure pile.

 

[Jake14mw]

I'll weigh in on the Tobago cards. I received these cards from Surfik earlier this month. Unfortunately, because of the COVID crisis, it took well over two months for me to receive them. Overall, I think the cards are very good. They are a little more flexible than I prefer, but I did not realize that they were off the charts flexible! I like the texture of them. I like the backs, and I like the fact that they were made for an actual casino in Latvia.

As far as the slight anomaly Dix has noted, I have examined my deck closely and don’t see any indication of a defect or any noticeable difference between cards in mine.

Card Faces – The cards have the yellow box, which I really like personally. I am not a fan of the font, but I don’t think it’s really objectionable. The size of the number is massive, which I don’t like. It’s the largest I’ve ever seen for a jumbo index card. Strangely, the suit under it is rather small though. What I like is that the suit is very close to the number, so that lessens how far you have to bend the card when peeking to identify the suit, although it’s still far down due to the size of the PIP.

I am happy with them, and I will definitely give them a try when my group starts playing again and see what they think.

 

[Dix]

As far as the slight anomaly Dix has noted, I have examined my deck closely and don’t see any indication of a defect or any noticeable difference between cards in mine.

There's no difference between the cards in the deck I got, the difference is one end of the card vs the other.

In mine, it's on the faces, (backs are perfect) & it's only about the last 1/4" of the face. It's really hard to describe, but, imagine if you were running a sheet-fed printing press & the ink started running out toward one edge of the sheet. That's kind of the effect. In fact, if each card individually were run though the final coating process, I'd say that's exactly what it was. Problem is, I don't believe that's how it's done, & that end is actually a few tenths of a thousandth thicker than the rest of the card, not thinner.

Trying to photograph micrometer measurements would drive me nuts, but, it is just enough for my calipers to show it at the very limit of their resolution...

I've drawn a line on this one where the "transition" on the face takes place....

Here's the way I actually picked up on the fact that something was odd.... for this example let's call the end with the minor issue the "North" end & the other the "South" end.

So, on top would be the deck as you would take it out of the wrapper.... All North & South ends on the same end of the deck. Looks like the edge of any stacked deck of cards, right? Now look at that same deck (bottom image) after a few riffles where the North & South of one cut get inverted before riffling them together.

You can actually see where groups of cards that have the North edge aligned with each other are right next to another group where that is the South edge.

Now, once again I want to reiterate, there is absolutely no way to differentiate between one card and any another without looking at the face. You can't even really see or feel the effect of this unless you know it's there & specifically go looking for it. (& pretty d*mn closely too)

Also, if Jake's deck DOESN'T show this, that just lands as more potential evidence that these decks never made it as far as the casino. Meaning, an entire lot/batch was QC rejected at the factory because some of the decks within it had this issue. That's something that speaks highly of Catamundi's Belgium facility. Maybe some of Modiano's meatheads should go up there & beg for a lesson or two.

If you're as big a fan of Desjgn's older stock cards as I am, or you're a fan of either Modiano's Texas Poker line, Kem, Gemaco, or Copag, you owe it to yourself to grab a deck or few of these if you don't mind that you can only get one back design/color while @surfik has some left. I WISH I could get these somewhere in differing colors/backs. They'd likely push the old stock Desjgn's I have off the top of my heap. Yea, I like 'em THAT much.

 

[Jake14mw]

Yes, no evidence of that in my deck .

 

[surfik]

Well judging by the way I get those I would not be hasty drawing conclusions about Cartamundi quality control, there is a plenty of way he could lay his hands on them.

 

[Jambine]

Well judging by the way I get those I would not be hasty drawing conclusions about Cartamundi quality control, there is a plenty of way he could lay his hands on them.

?

 

[surfik]

?

If they were detected as flawed shouldn't they be sent back to Cartamundi or destroyed by casino... I am just saying.. I bough them from casino employee... Maybe he was the one who supposed to shred them

 

[Dix]

Ahh..... that could very well be.

It would be a bit strange for the factory to sell 'em if they're supposed to be unique to a casino. I'm sure the casino would be p*ssed. But I wasn't going to speculate on what may or may not be the norm on the other side of the Atlantic. Another logical assumption might be a design change, & selling off leftover old design stock.

& yea, the Casino would definitely likely destroy/cancel any used/unused decks it was in possession of. So, maybe these were supposed to get disposed of/cancelled & someone availed themselves of an opportunity. A sharp dealer could have picked up on this, noted it to the casino floor, & that lot got pulled.

 

[Dix]

OK, so after my review of the above Cartamundi Casino cards that sneaky SOB @surfik tricked me into reviewing, I went on a mission to find more of 'em with a different color/back design printed on the same stock. Yea, I'm an insane OCD card junkie... hey, everybody needs a hobby right? Of course my wife is continuously reminding me that's "A hobby" ... singular.... eh, what does she know?

Anyway, unlike NASA, around this joint, failure is always an option.... hence, I bring you.....

CARTAMUNDI CASINO - USA​

Umm.... yea,.... USA. As in "Made in USA".... as opposed to Belgium.

If you're getting the feeling that's a prelude to coming attractions.... you'd be right about that, & you might want to stay tuned.

But for now, back to the failure du jour...

So Spinetti's has a Cartamundi "Casino Quality" poker size, jumbo index, 100% plastic offering at 6 bucks per. OK, with shipping that's going to be pricy, but I managed to find something else as well (yea, even more future bloat for the DB to come) that scratched my card junkie OCD itch to defray the shipping cost. So, oh what the h*ll... why not?

Now, while there were no images of the card faces for comparison, if I'd been paying attention, I'd have noticed the little "Made in USA" fine print on the jokers... but, who pays attention these days?

So, no.... these are NOT anything like the Belgium-made casino cards above... in fact, they're another in the line of cheap Cartamundi offerings such as the "Classic" and "Ace" decks that you can find pretty much anywhere. Although, I will say that these are the best of the 3.... but just barely. & that's not really saying much.

Right out of the gate, these are PVC not Acetate. Also, as I stated, made in USA like the Classic & Ace versions. & while these didn't come with a box, I have little doubt they were produced in the same Dallas Texas facility as listed on the boxes of those.

In comparing Classics with Ace, Classics are thinner & thus more flexible. In fact, they're the thinnest (at a hair-thin 0.105") cards on the entire list. & by far the most flexible of any PVC card. They also use a standard brighter red. Ace on the other hand, are thicker, with a more medium-soft flex, & uses the darker "security" red ink.

They are similar in that they both have smooth faces & "glossy" or unfinished backs. Which tends to make 'em slippery as h*ll. As is typical of cheap plastics.

So what about these "Casino" or Casino Quality"?

Well.... if yer askin' me.... no, not hardly.

In fact, I'd call 'em a bit of an improved Ace. Or, an Ace that they actually finished.

About the only real difference between these & Ace, is in that they actually seem to have put a finish coating on the backs. The backs of these are actually not glossy. But, still smooth as the freshly Zamboni'd surface of Boston Garden before the Bruins' afternoon practice. It's almost as though they were trying to actually make something that would compete with Copag. Well, if that's the case, they failed. Marion Pro are still your best bet if you're looking for Copag-ish quality on a budget.

Very similar specs in all regards to Ace. Thickness & flex are both as close as makes no difference. Only real difference is these have a smooth finish face and back.

The smooth back still renders 'em on the slickery side of things. OK, sure, maybe not as scatter-prone as Ace or Classic, but still slicker than Copags. If you have a ham-fisted shuffler in your group that can scatter a Copag deck, they'll be doing even more renditions of Mount St. Helens with these. Just maybe a few less of them than they would with Ace.

As always, specs are now up in the database: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

& stay tuned, when I get some more time I'll put up my thoughts on the mystery guest purchase I also got from Spinetti's. Also, as alluded to above, the search is not yet over. Just in something of a trans-Atlantic holding pattern. So, we haven't given up all hope yet.... Hey, when I was racing cars this was a poster on the lid of the pit-box...

 

[JMC9389]

OK, so after my review of the above Cartamundi Casino cards that sneaky SOB @surfik tricked me into reviewing, I went on a mission to find more of 'em with a different color/back design printed on the same stock. Yea, I'm an insane OCD card junkie... hey, everybody needs a hobby right? Of course my wife is continuously reminding me that's "A hobby" ... singular.... eh, what does she know?

Anyway, unlike NASA, around this joint, failure is always an option.... hence, I bring you.....

CARTAMUNDI CASINO - USA​

Umm.... yea,.... USA. As in "Made in USA".... as opposed to Belgium.

If you're getting the feeling that's a prelude to coming attractions.... you'd be right about that, & you might want to stay tuned.

But for now, back to the failure du jour...

So Spinetti's has a Cartamundi "Casino Quality" poker size, jumbo index, 100% plastic offering at 6 bucks per. OK, with shipping that's going to be pricy, but I managed to find something else as well (yea, even more future bloat for the DB to come) that scratched my card junkie OCD itch to defray the shipping cost. So, oh what the h*ll... why not?

Now, while there were no images of the card faces for comparison, if I'd been paying attention, I'd have noticed the little "Made in USA" fine print on the jokers... but, who pays attention these days?

So, no.... these are NOT anything like the Belgium-made casino cards above... in fact, they're another in the line of cheap Cartamundi offerings such as the "Classic" and "Ace" decks that you can find pretty much anywhere. Although, I will say that these are the best of the 3.... but just barely. & that's not really saying much.

View attachment 498132​

Right out of the gate, these are PVC not Acetate. Also, as I stated, made in USA like the Classic & Ace versions. & while these didn't come with a box, I have little doubt they were produced in the same Dallas Texas facility as listed on the boxes of those.

In comparing Classics with Ace, Classics are thinner & thus more flexible. In fact, they're the thinnest (at a hair-thin 0.105") cards on the entire list. & by far the most flexible of any PVC card. They also use a standard brighter red. Ace on the other hand, are thicker, with a more medium-soft flex, & uses the darker "security" red ink.

They are similar in that they both have smooth faces & "glossy" or unfinished backs. Which tends to make 'em slippery as h*ll. As is typical of cheap plastics.

So what about these "Casino" or Casino Quality"?

Well.... if yer askin' me.... no, not hardly.

In fact, I'd call 'em a bit of an improved Ace. Or, an Ace that they actually finished.

About the only real difference between these & Ace, is in that they actually seem to have put a finish coating on the backs. The backs of these are actually not glossy. But, still smooth as the freshly Zamboni'd surface of Boston Garden before the Bruins' afternoon practice. It's almost as though they were trying to actually make something that would compete with Copag. Well, if that's the case, they failed. Marion Pro are still your best bet if you're looking for Copag-ish quality on a budget.

Very similar specs in all regards to Ace. Thickness & flex are both as close as makes no difference. Only real difference is these have a smooth finish face and back.

The smooth back still renders 'em on the slickery side of things. OK, sure, maybe not as scatter-prone as Ace or Classic, but still slicker than Copags. If you have a ham-fisted shuffler in your group that can scatter a Copag deck, they'll be doing even more renditions of Mount St. Helens with these. Just maybe a few less of them than they would with Ace.

As always, specs are now up in the database: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/the-redneck-poker-card-database-2-0.76/

& stay tuned, when I get some more time I'll put up my thoughts on the mystery guest purchase I also got from Spinetti's. Also, as alluded to above, the search is not yet over. Just in something of a trans-Atlantic holding pattern. So, we haven't given up all hope yet.... Hey, when I was racing cars this was a poster on the lid of the pit-box...

View attachment 498138​

Thanks for the review. I just got a couple of these because I needed to reach minimum shipping after getting a few things from Spinetti's.

 

[Dix]

If you set the bar low you won't be too disappointed when you get around to opening 'em up.

 

[JMC9389]

If you set the bar low you won't be too disappointed when you get around to opening 'em up.

All good, I have a set up of the acetate decks coming from Europe in the mail too

 

[Dix]

Poland or Holland?

 

[JMC9389]

Poland or Holland?

The latter. I already have one of @surfik 's Tobago Casino decks

 

[Dix]

I have a feeling those are the ticket. 2 sets are on the way here as well.

 

[JCM_]

Try Angel 100%Plastic .
It's better than KEM in my opinion.

 

[JMC9389]

Try Angel 100%Plastic .
It's better than KEM in my opinion.

Do you have a connection that can get us some Angel cards? They're very hard for the private consumer to acquire.

I saw a potential set up on eBay for $40 a few days ago but I waited too long and it was gone before I decided I would go for it.

 

[Dix]

If someone has a source for those Angel jumbo index poker size, I'm all ears.