THIS is a TRK chip (3 Viewers)

[davislane]

I do not view that PCF is the enemy, hardly. I think it is the other way around that some PCF members view the ChipGuide as the enemy. I am not here for donations, either. The reason that we ask to cite the ChipGuide as a source of the images is that it gives the ChipGuide increased exposure. We let you use our images, for non-commercial purposes, saving you the time of scanning and edittng the image chip yourself. In return we ask to mention where you got the image from to give us some exposure. Isn't that a fair deal?

id rather contribute $10 then have to quote where the image came from every single time. majority of people know where the scan came from or dont care.

 

[Tommy]

I haven't seen one rude, insulting post from @ChipGuide towards anyone here, yet many are doing just the opposite towards them. It's OK to disagree with someone's point of view but not in the manner that some are. I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.

 

[Bill_Man618]

I'm just going to say this. I use and like the chip guide and to an extent I understand why he is asking us to say where we got them.However, I'm not quite sure I understand the value in getting "exposure" from here when everyone already knows about the site. Also, as a lot of people said I'm not even sure why you would care about it beyond exposure. Like there is free use music out there man. Thats something people create and spend tons of time working on and they let others use it for free. These are pictures given to you by collectors who want them to be shared with others. I don't understand why you'd take them and then restrict their use in this way.In my opinion if you want more traffic you need to update the site and get it out off 1994 and then people will use it more frequently. Also, having the site welcome more people looking for sets would help as well. Singles collecting is nit was popular as set collecting as far as I've seen and just rejecting those collectors or being angry because they "drive the prices up" serves no meaningful purpose. I'm not saying you do all of these things but I have seen members of your sites do them. This is just my 2c so take it for what it's worth.

 

[ChipGuide]

I'm just going to say this. I use and like the chip guide and to an extent I understand why he is asking us to say where we got them.However, I'm not quite sure I understand the value in getting "exposure" from here when everyone already knows about the site. Also, as a lot of people said I'm not even sure why you would care about it beyond exposure. Like there is free use music out there man. Thats something people create and spend tons of time working on and they let others use it for free. These are pictures given to you by collectors who want them to be shared with others. I don't understand why you'd take them and then restrict their use in this way.In my opinion if you want more traffic you need to update the site and get it out off 1994 and then people will use it more frequently. Also, having the site welcome more people looking for sets would help as well. Singles collecting is nit was popular as set collecting as far as I've seen and just rejecting those collectors or being angry because they "drive the prices up" serves no meaningful purpose. I'm not saying you do all of these things but I have seen members of your sites do them. This is just my 2c so take it for what it's worth.

Thank you. Citing the ChipGuide as the source of the images applies to wherever it is used, which includes PCF. I understand that most PCF members know about the ChipGuide, so citing the ChipGuide it has limited value here. But it does have some value and not every PCF member knows the ChipGuide.

 

[ChipGuide]

I haven't seen one rude, insulting post from @ChipGuide towards anyone here, yet many are doing just the opposite towards them. It's OK to disagree with someone's point of view but not in the manner that some are. I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.

Thank you. As I mentioned in our discussion, I am checking out if we can grant the PCF use of ChipGuide images without having to cite the ChipGuide each time they are used. Hopefully, this work out to everyone's benefit.

 

[Grandmasturkey]

I haven't seen one rude, insulting post from @ChipGuide towards anyone here, yet many are doing just the opposite towards them. It's OK to disagree with someone's point of view but not in the manner that some are. I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.

I think the issue here is that it's not an "opinion" or "point of view," it's actually a flawed pseudolegal argument that has a correct answer.

As the lawyers/legal experts on this site have mentioned @ChipGuide has made some incorrect legal assertions about ownership of photos and further made some "threats" in the form of comments about copyright internet scouring service that is available to use to target people "stealing" images without crediting the source.

While the law is, by and large, up for debate, it seems that this has an answer at the chipguide is incorrect about their assumptions about copywriter infringement and what "ownership" means. We need less misinformation in this world, not more.

 

[Bill_Man618]

I haven't seen one rude, insulting post from @ChipGuide towards anyone here, yet many are doing just the opposite towards them. It's OK to disagree with someone's point of view but not in the manner that some are. I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.

I agree with you. While we might not like him, agree with him, or care about his opinion he has been at least respectful to us when responding. The least we can do is be respectful when giving him feedback. At least he's gonna be more likely to listen and care if we do that guys.

 

[Grandmasturkey]

Thank you. FYI. If you use copyrighted images without permission, eventually you will be caught. There are companies, check out PIXSY. that look for copyright violations and then present the website owners with outrageous bill's ($1,000's) for the use of an image and then will eventually sue you if you don't pay up. I am trying to work out a deal to allow PCF members to use ChipGuide images (for non-commercial use) without having to mention the source. But, until then, if you use a ChipGuide please mention where you got it from. This is not something that I like to do, but I need to protect the work of 1,000's of collectors and ChipGuide administrators who donated their time and money to create the ChipGuide. Thank you.

I am not here to get legal, that is the last thing that I want to happen. All I ask is if you are using someone else's stuff, and they ask you to mention where you got the stuff from when you use it, it would be common courtesy to do so.

I just think leading with a flawed legal argument may mean that you do in fact intend to "get legal"

 

[BarrieJ3]

Thank you. Citing the ChipGuide as the source of the images applies to wherever it is used, which includes PCF. I understand that most PCF members know about the ChipGuide, so citing the ChipGuide it has limited value here. But it does have some value and not every PCF member knows the ChipGuide.

It's a weird thread for sure. And a strange occurrence as well - a highly valued resource being represented here by you yet you being horribly bashed by anyone willing to comment.

Without having first hand knowledge, I believe I remember there being previous mention of potential lawsuit that would come or was being threatened by The Chip Guide for misuse of images. The ability to do that, and successfully do it, appears murky at best but more likely not plausible.

So given that already noted history, you chose to join and make your SECOND ever comment, "courtesy of Chip Guide".

If you came here desiring value or exposure, you would have been better off joining and introducing yourself. Assuredly, there still would have been some mockery for previous interaction. However with threads like "What can we update for you" and "How was your experience as a Chip Guide contributor" you would have quickly endeared yourself to a group of fanatics who regularly utilize your resource.

I would agree, as any sane person, that the comments in this thread were pointed and unneeded, but also mostly for comical purposes. However, it doesn't look like you are remotely fit to be an agent of the Chip Room given your inability to promote it's interests or reputation. If I had any ownership or interest in the well being of the Chip Guide, I would ask you to find a better steward.

If not, maybe step back and attempt to ingrain yourself in the communities who most widely utilize you instead of setting fire to their farmlands.

 

[ChipGuide]

It's a weird thread for sure. And a strange occurrence as well - a highly valued resource being represented here by you yet you being horribly bashed by anyone willing to comment.

Without having first hand knowledge, I believe I remember there being previous mention of potential lawsuit that would come or was being threatened by The Chip Guide for misuse of images. The ability to do that, and successfully do it, appears murky at best but more likely not plausible.

So given that already noted history, you chose to join and make your SECOND ever comment, "courtesy of Chip Guide".

If you came here desiring value or exposure, you would have been better off joining and introducing yourself. Assuredly, there still would have been some mockery for previous interaction. However with threads like "What can we update for you" and "How was your experience as a Chip Guide contributor" you would have quickly endeared yourself to a group of fanatics who regularly utilize your resource.

I would agree, as any sane person, that the comments in this thread were pointed and unneeded, but also mostly for comical purposes. However, it doesn't look like you are remotely fit to be an agent of the Chip Room given your inability to promote it's interests or reputation. If I had any ownership or interest in the well being of the Chip Guide, I would ask you to find a better steward.

If not, maybe step back and attempt to ingrain yourself in the communities who most widely utilize you instead of setting fire to their farmlands.

The ChipGuide has never sued anyone for copyright infringement nor threatened to. We regularly find eBay sellers who use ChipGuide images and then ask the sellers to remove the images. Almost all the time the sellers understand and remove the images. Twice we had to ask eBay to take the pictures down because the seller would not voluntarily comply.

 

[LeGold]

The ChipGuide has never sued anyone for copyright infringement nor threatened to. We regularly find eBay sellers who use ChipGuide images and then ask the sellers to remove the images. Almost all the time the sellers understand and remove the images. Twice we had to ask eBay to take the pictures down because the seller would not voluntarily comply.

IIRC, not only that, but you also asked a seller to take down his own image(s) of his own chips.

 

[bergs]

I do not view that PCF is the enemy, hardly. I think it is the other way around that some PCF members view the ChipGuide as the enemy.

So weird to think that when you’re literally a digital ghoul trying to steal people’s pictures.

I am not here for donations, either.

Just gonna let this sink in for a sec…..

The reason that we ask to cite the ChipGuide as a source of the images is that it gives the ChipGuide increased exposure.

Translation: “please let our digital ghouls steal your pictures so that we can grow the subscriber base for our dial-up-bulletin-board-circa-1987-looking website”.

We let you use our images, for non-commercial purposes, saving you the time of scanning and edittng the image chip yourself. In return we ask to mention where you got the image from to give us some exposure. Isn't that a fair deal?

No, not really. You have zero enforceable legal right to demand this, which you’ve basically done on this site and alienated nearly every single person who has interacted with you or read what you posted.

 

[BarrieJ3]

I believe I remember there being previous mention of potential lawsuit that would come or was being threatened by The Chip Guide for misuse of images.

The ChipGuide has never sued anyone for copyright infringement nor threatened to. We regularly find eBay sellers who use ChipGuide images and then ask the sellers to remove the images. Almost all the time the sellers understand and remove the images. Twice we had to ask eBay to take the pictures down because the seller would not voluntarily comply.

So to one of the first well meaning responses, you choose to go immediately into defense mode and argue semantics. There are plenty of second hand examples on this site alone of you engaging in the above mentioned manner.

You continue to prove that you should absolutely not be considered a steward for the Chip Guide, or at the very, very, least - not here.

Tommy may want people to treat you with sincerity, but when doing so gets this type of tone deaf response, it seems a waste of time. Add me to the list of chippers who lack respect for the way you conduct yourself, and by extension, lack respect for the authority of the Chip Guide.

As a chipper who has interest in the Chip Guide being protected and respected, who can we speak with in limiting your ownership/stewardship/acting on behalf of CG?

 

[bergs]

I haven't seen one rude, insulting post from @ChipGuide towards anyone here, yet many are doing just the opposite towards them. It's OK to disagree with someone's point of view but not in the manner that some are. I'm going to ask one last time to please keep your posts civil and constructive.

TBH Tommy, ChipGuide’s assertion that they can take pictures of a person’s chips, call it their picture, and then ask the person that originally took the picture of their own chips to take their picture or attribute the picture to the Chip Guide because Chip Guide tried to digitally “own” the picture is a patently ridicilous and insulting position to a lot of people here.

He doesn’t need to actually post rude and/or insulting content when the position they’re staking is out is both rude and insulting at the same time.

I think it’s reasonable to expect people to be pissed off and want to express that. Plus there is history with people having poor experiences with the Chip Guide in the past.

 

[BGinGA]

Thank you. FYI. If you use copyrighted images without permission, eventually you will be caught. There are companies, check out PIXSY. that look for copyright violations and then present the website owners with outrageous bill's ($1,000's) for the use of an image and then will eventually sue you if you don't pay up. I am trying to work out a deal to allow PCF members to use ChipGuide images (for non-commercial use) without having to mention the source. But, until then, if you use a ChipGuide please mention where you got it from. This is not something that I like to do, but I need to protect the work of 1,000's of collectors and ChipGuide administrators who donated their time and money to create the ChipGuide. Thank you.

Owner permission is not required for Fair Use of images, and using copyrighted images under Fair Use is not a copyright violation. Any suggestion otherwise (or latent threats of bills, fines, or law suits) for Fair Use of copyrighted images is simply ridiculous and exhibits a lack of understanding of copyright law.

Furthermore, no "deal to allow PCF members to use ChipGuide images" is necessary whatsoever, since those members are not even required to obtain permission for using the images under the Fair Use provisions of copyright law.

Lastly, the "donated" chip images displayed on ChipGuide do not belong to the ChipGuide, but rather still belong to the original image creators who legally retain their copyright regardless of any changes made by ChipGuide to their images. The idea that altering the images somehow grants copyright protection to the ChipGuide is simply false.

 

[bergs]

Why can’t people just use Pixsy to go after Chip Guide for having their images used without attribution?

 

[BGinGA]

Why can’t people just use Pixsy to go after Chip Guide for having their images used without attribution?

Because, unlike @ChipGuide, those people 1) aren't self-centered assholes, and 2) have better and more productive things to do with their time.

 

[RagahRagah]

Sorry, it's way too late for avoiding the true legal aspect, you opened that gnarly can of worms yourself.

And hey, you can ask all you want. But since we're not using YOUR stuff, you can go pound sand* with your request.

Common courtesy would be for you to actually exhibit some factual knowledge regarding the bs you are slinging. We don't appreciate it.


*legal term for stick it up your ass

Reading through this thread and seeing you of all people lecture someone on common courtesy (and being a "self-centered asshole") was the funniest thing I have seen all week; funnier than this thread itself. Common courtesy is something you know absolutely nothing about. This is like watching Harvey Weinstein lecture someone on sexual harassment.

You have zero self-awareness and are literally one of the last people on earth who should be speaking about "common courtesy" after what you pulled with me, accuracy on this issue not withstanding. You are quite the projectionist.

I laughed at this thread the same as everyone else, but many posters were able to explain things like adults without resorting to childlike behavior. The constant rabid hypocrisy you flash around here is not a good look.

 

[Gunnar]

As a part of European photographers union, former information and data expert working with EFTA, ESA and EU and current digital forensics and cybersecurity expert for Companies and Government Agencies.

I can promise you if I find one picture from myself on Chipguide. I will teach you copyright laws

 

[BarrieJ3]

The blue collar remarks and old man yelling at clouds vs old man yelling at clouds was a bit old after 1 page.

BUT NOW……

 

[leo822]

@ChipGuide If someone is not happy with the direction of Chipguide and how their images are being handled who do they contact to have their images returned? Seems to me since the policy "add on" at the end of the submission form was never signed and not legally enforceable I should be able to re-claim my photos?

 

[LeGold]

@ChipGuide If someone is not happy with the direction of Chipguide and how their images are being handled who do they contact to have their images returned? Seems to me since the policy "add on" at the end of the submission form was never signed and not legally enforceable I should be able to re-claim my photos?

You do not need to reclaim anything - the photos have never ceased to be yours. But you can ask them to be removed and revoke them the rights to use them.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Hey. @Gear . Cancel these guys orders. They don't wanna be on your team.

@Schmendr1ck and his 12 cats and I roll together.....

Screw you, I only have ten cats. And a pet gator.

 

[bergs]

Screw you, I only have ten cats. And a pet gator.

Soon to be 4 cats. And a very fat pet gator.

 

[gopherblue]

Thank you. As I mentioned in our discussion, I am checking out if we can grant the PCF use of ChipGuide images without having to cite the ChipGuide each time they are used. Hopefully, this work out to everyone's benefit.

I can answer that: You need not "grant" anything. In fact, no action required by you at all. Fair use. Thanks again for stopping by.

 

[leo822]

You do not need to reclaim anything - the photos have never ceased to be yours. But you can ask them to be removed and revoke them the rights to use them.

@ChipGuide. Please consider this an official request to have my images removed. Please provide contact details to initiate request. Thank You.

 

[Schmendr1ck]

Soon to be 4 cats. And a very fat pet gator.

Toothy McToothface, NOOO! Bad gator!

 

[ovo]

You could have been removed as the contributor if we replaced your images with better ones. We had a policy change several years ago and now we retain the original contributor as well as the new contributor. I can fix that for you if you let me know which images your contributed.

I went to your site, looked at the chips I submitted, can't remember exactly which ones, since it has been years, but I used a scanner and my pics were exceptionally great, and the ones I see are not so great, but submitted , most likely by CC&GTCC members, which was why I figured I was removed, since I am not a CC&GTCC member. When I did it, I was feeling great about submitting pics to a hobby I really enjoy, and felt good when I saw my name on your site, but it's not so important that my name is there. But I felt rather unappreciated, but that was years ago.

 

[Samuel]

Still no-acking AlbinoDragon's excellent post, huh? I guess he was just casting pearls...

 

[LeGold]

Still no-acking AlbinoDragon's post, huh?

Was thinking the same. Smoothly ignored...