Dumb question about a raise or call. (5 Viewers)

[Pokerdweebz]

This, what is pot?, incomplete raise all ins, 50% rule, and what is the correct min raise are the biggest misconceptions imo

 

[Natskule]

So, the rule is any amount of chips pushed is a call unless verbally stated as a raise? Or only applies to one or two chips pushed?

If every chip pushed is needed to cover the call, then it's a call. If there is an extra chip pushed that is not needed to call, then it's a raise.

$6 bet

Two $5 chips, it's a call
Three $5 chips, it's a raise

 

[ekricket]

the internet. that is what is going on with this thread. a post titled "is the sky blue" would probably generate 100 comments, 50 gifs, a dozen different theories, 5 racial slurs, 3 personal attacks, and at least one member banned.

that is the beauty of the internet.

Just saying..

“Technically, the short wavelengths that scatter across the sky correspond to the colours blue and violet, making the real colour of the sky a bluish purple.

However, the cone cells in our eyes that detect colour aren’t very sensitive to violet, so we see the sky as blue.”

https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/why-is-the-sky-blue

 

[upNdown]

It's not called the one chip rule. It's the oversized chip rule

I use those Dunes Baccarat chips - they're all oversized.

 

[glynn]

Since so many thought raise, I wonder when TDA introduced two chip calls. Is it a more recent change that has caught us out?

Luckily, it's a versioned document. The 2009 rulebook is the oldest version currently hosted on the TDA site. It includes a 33: Multiple Chips rule, though it applies to bets made with multiple same-denomination chips. That same-denomination stipulation was removed from the 2013 rulebook (43: Multiple Chip Betting).

But the oversized (not single) chip rule long predates the TDA, who were mostly looking around to see what rooms were already doing as they were figuring things out.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Tournament rules don't necessarily apply to a cash game.

I concur - hence the rest of my post you cleverly edited out. Show me something from Roberts Rules, if it doth exist.

I am well versed with the TDA rules, and watch the bi-annual meetings to stay atop any rule changes. I am not so sharp with RR, but am happy to stand corrected if it states otherwise.

...or if you just want to converse in gifs,

 

[Poker Zombie]

OP is $1/$3 game but ok.

Your rules change based on stakes?

 

[glynn]

Your rules change based on stakes?

I mean, his definition of a raise changes based on whether there are smaller chips behind. The possibilities are wide open here.

 

[MrRossKeys]

$1/3 game.

Players raises to $6

Next player puts 2 $5 chips in without saying anything.

Call or raise?

I say raise because it’s not 1 chip and it’s enough for a legit raise.

What is the correct ruling?

At my game:

If this happens preflop then it is a raise.

If this happens postflop it is a call.

In either case, at my game I'm asking the player to clarify, because it takes like 5 seconds to ask and answer.

 

[springbox]

I mean, his definition of a raise changes based on whether there are smaller chips behind. The possibilities are wide open here.

Chips behind don't matter here, just the chips you push forwards.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Lol.

 

[Rieguy]

All I know is the last thing anyone should ever do is ask the dealer or player what their action or intention is with the two chips in a casual home cash game.

 

[glynn]

Chips behind don't matter here, just the chips you push forwards.

Sensible folks agree with you.

Did he have any smaller chips? If yes then raise. If no then call.

 

[WedgeRock]

I concur - hence the rest of my post you cleverly edited out. Show me something from Roberts Rules, if it doth exist.

I am well versed with the TDA rules, and watch the bi-annual meetings to stay atop any rule changes. I am not so sharp with RR, but am happy to stand corrected if it states otherwise.

...or if you just want to converse in gifs,
View attachment 1386259

I didn't cleverly edit out the rest of your post. But everyone after you jumped on the TDA rules, and yours was the easiest quote to illustrate my point.

 

[ekricket]

Did he have any smaller chips? If yes then raise. If no then call.

Typically in tournaments, if I’m coming up on the blinds and I have enough for the big blind but not the small I’ll use an oversized chip for the BB because it’s less change and when I post the small blind with an oversized chip it tends to cause confusion - as in “your not in the big blind” or “I pulled mine back because I thought you were the big blind” from the big blind. So I’d rather keep my small chips for the small blind, even if I could make the big blind with all of them.

 

[UniLover]

Your rules change based on stakes?

Yeah in your scenario with blinds of 5c/10c whether it was a $9.85 bet or $7.85 (not sure you felt the need to change the amount btw), two $5 chips clearly is not enough for a min raise of 2x the bet so that is clearly a call. It would have to be at least $15.60 to raise right?

Blinds of $1/$3, facing a $3 raise to total of $6, the two $5 chips could be interpreted as a call or a raise of over the 2x the bet to $10 total.

At my casual cash game that’s a raise. Doesn’t take that long to clairfy anyway.

 

[Phoe9x]

I’d say a call. A single chip isn’t enough to cover it, so you just throw in another and get change.

Id do the exact same thing if I wanted a few more singles. Granted I would say “call”

 

[WedgeRock]

Granted I would say “call”

 

[Poker Zombie]

$9.85 bet or $7.85 (not sure you felt the need to change the amount btw)

$7.85 sounded funny - I'm a comedy writer that also has poignant viewpoints.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, I hate to go against those that say it would be a raise. However, if a disagreement ever broke out at the table over it, there is an actual, casino-accepted rule written down that says it is a call, and no rule anywhere (that I've seen so far) that even suggests otherwise.

If someone makes a thread asking for a ruling, I'm not going to tell them something proven to be wrong, simply because my home game plays it wrong. If I were to do so, I would have clear, concise reasons for my altering standard rules. Not "At my casual cash game that’s a raise."

Why would you knowingly run the rule the wrong way?

 

[UniLover]

$7.85 sounded funny - I'm a comedy writer that also has poignant viewpoints.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, I hate to go against those that say it would be a raise. However, if a disagreement ever broke out at the table over it, there is an actual, casino-accepted rule written down that says it is a call, and no rule anywhere (that I've seen so far) that even suggests otherwise.

If someone makes a thread asking for a ruling, I'm not going to tell them something proven to be wrong, simply because my home game plays it wrong. If I were to do so, I would have clear, concise reasons for my altering standard rules. Not "At my casual cash game that’s a raise."

Why would you knowingly run the rule the wrong way?

Thanks. Learning lots today. I didn't know there was an official casino accepted rule before today. I knew about the one over-chip being a call, but was not aware of the multi-chip rule. From now on, this shall be a call at my casual cash game.

Unless of course, I'm also in the pot and have the nuts, in which case it will be a raise.

 

[BGinGA]

Hey @AcesUp907 (remember him?): Not such a dumb question after all.

 

[AcesUp907]

It's not a common issue - it doesn't come up very often, so people aren't familiar with the rule.
And I think what complicates the issue is that since everybody is familiar with the one chip call, they try to assume some sort of weird converse where if two chips are used, it must be a raise if it could possibly be.

Is it not?

 

[AcesUp907]

I didn’t think this would be 2 pages lol.

 

[Duncan25]

I would say 100% a raise.

 

[upNdown]

Is it not?

Is it?
I can't remember seeing a dispute over this issue while playing live.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Is it?
I can't remember seeing a dispute over this issue while playing live.

It pops up often enough in tournament play that I would call it common (1:3 sessions for a new player). Among players familiar with the rule (even if they get it wrong), it goes unnoticed/undisputed.

 

[Rakrul]

Man, I hate to go against the group. Instead I'll just post the TDA rule...


In the OP's case, a single $5 chip was not enough to make the call, so two $5 chips without declaration is a call.

TDA primarily handles tournaments, but unless cash rules are different I'd have to go with this. Show me a different ruling.

Wow, TIL. I initially thought raise but stand corrected. Checked RRoP and it doesn't mention this situation.

 

[BPTDirector]

Did he have any $1 chips? If he did it’s a raise, if not it’s a call.

 

[upNdown]

It pops up often enough in tournament play that I would call it common (1:3 sessions for a new player). Among players familiar with the rule (even if they get it wrong), it goes unnoticed/undisputed.

No doubt you play more than me, but that hasn’t been my experience.
I suppose this is more likely to occur in a min-raise situation?

 

[Kentucky]

I would put two chips out and make this nerdy gesture. Would this get me insta banned from your game?